Israel

[oldie]

Oct 17, 2023 17:48:24 GMT pirate said:

Oct 17, 2023 16:47:27 GMT oldie said:

Certainly not this

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67119233

Horrific war crimes.

This is sickening.
Never thought that in my lifetime I would ever witness anything like this.

[trevorgas]

Oct 17, 2023 17:50:25 GMT oldie said:

Oct 17, 2023 17:48:24 GMT pirate said:

Horrific war crimes.

This is sickening.
Never thought that in my lifetime I would ever witness anything like this.

This is a totally independent hospital run by the Anglican church who's head in Jerusalem says it was a direct hit by an Israeli missile.
Assuming they own up rather than equivocate when will the US/UK condemn this atrocity or our Palestinian Women and children of less value then Israeli,me I'm sick to death of so called world leaders playing politics with innocent people's lives when is someone going to stand up for those who don't have the power or where with all to do it themselves.

[oldie]

Oct 17, 2023 19:47:40 GMT trevorgas said:

Oct 17, 2023 17:50:25 GMT oldie said:

This is sickening.
Never thought that in my lifetime I would ever witness anything like this.

This is a totally independent hospital run by the Anglican church who's head in Jerusalem says it was a direct hit by an Israeli missile.
Assuming they own up rather than equivocate when will the US/UK condemn this atrocity or our Palestinian Women and children of less value then Israeli,me I'm sick to death of so called world leaders playing politics with innocent people's lives when is someone going to stand up for those who don't have the power or where with all to do it themselves.

Yep.
This is murder, pure and simple.

[yattongas]

Sickening 😔

[trevorgas]

Oct 17, 2023 19:50:58 GMT oldie said:

Oct 17, 2023 19:47:40 GMT trevorgas said:

This is a totally independent hospital run by the Anglican church who's head in Jerusalem says it was a direct hit by an Israeli missile.
Assuming they own up rather than equivocate when will the US/UK condemn this atrocity or our Palestinian Women and children of less value then Israeli,me I'm sick to death of so called world leaders playing politics with innocent people's lives when is someone going to stand up for those who don't have the power or where with all to do it themselves.

Yep.
This is murder, pure and simple.

Ooh surprise surprise it was a Hamas rocket that fell short and I'm Santa Claus!!

[stuart1974]

Oct 17, 2023 20:00:17 GMT trevorgas said:

Oct 17, 2023 19:50:58 GMT oldie said:

Yep.
This is murder, pure and simple.

Ooh surprise surprise it was a Hamas rocket that fell short and I'm Santa Claus!!

Whether it is or isn't is sadly irrelevant. The narrative is that it is the IDF and the coming reactions will assume that, I see the embassy in Jordan has been attacked.

All eyes on Biden and possibly Qatar who have contacts on all sided here. They may be the best hope of minimising the widening of the conflict.

[stuart1974]

Reports of the UN building and French embassy in Beirut getting attacked, also Hezbollah getting ready.

This could well spread north into Lebanon.

MI5 warning of increased attacks in the UK and in Europe more widely.

[pirate]

Oct 17, 2023 20:00:17 GMT trevorgas said:

Oct 17, 2023 19:50:58 GMT oldie said:

Yep.
This is murder, pure and simple.

Ooh surprise surprise it was a Hamas rocket that fell short and I'm Santa Claus!!

We've heard these lies previously when they've carried out numerous massacres and war crimes over the years. 

The Israeli Defence Forces deliberately shot the Al-Jazeera journalist Shireen Abu Akleh in the head and tried to blame it on the Palestinians, but several investigations conducted by international news outlets, including The New York Times and The Washington Post concluded that she was killed by Israeli forces, with CNN finding that her death was the result of a targeted Israeli killing. Investigations by the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and US State Department also found Israel responsible with Forensic Architecture (a multidisciplinary research group based at Goldsmiths, University of London) said Abu Akleh was deliberately targeted and denied medical aid.

A 2009 UN Fact-Finding Mission looking at the genocidal 08-09 'Operation Cast Lead' or 'Gaza Massacre' found that Israel directly and intentially bombed hospitals with White Phosphorus munitions and then lied and tried to claim Hamas fighters were operating from there. The UN mission rejected those allegations.



Now I'm hearing about "Hamas human shields"... but it was actually the Israeli Defense Forces that previously appealed a supreme court ban on the practice and have been shown to have used human shields thousands of times.

Attachment Deleted 

As for this latest disgusting war crime and massacre, Israel Digital Spokesperson and advisor to Benjamin Netanyahu, Hananya Naftali, confirmed Israel carried out the attack: "the IDF struck a hamas terrorist base" and "multiple terrorists are dead" he wrote on X/Twitter, before deleting the tweet. Multiple sources confirm it was Israel that carried out the hospital bombing, including Médecins Sans Frontières.

[pirate]

The racist and extremist Israeli Minister of National Security posted this shortly after Israel bombed the hospital

Itamar Ben Gvir CV 👇🏻

Attachment Deleted

[gulfofaden]

Hamas build command centres in residential homes, hospitals and schools. They do this to draw sympathy from the likes of you.

Israel’s strikes came with leafleting campaigns. I’ve seen claims that the notice given wasn’t long enough, I’ve seen claims that civilians were attacked as they left, I’ve seen counter claims that this is BS. I’m not going to believe Hamas, especially after I saw them parading that raped and murdered girl around in the back of a truck, legs clearly broken, spitting on her corpse and cheering. Call me a sceptic, but I don’t naturally believe reports from the side doing this - openly targeting civilians than the other who warned civilians. It’s all available on twitter - unless these are deep fakes.

What’s your solution to this issue?

After the massacre, you’re Isreal. You know Hamas have their tunnel network under civilians. Do nothing and they kill more.

How would you solve it?

[gulfofaden]

Oct 17, 2023 22:57:00 GMT stuart1974 said:

Reports of the UN building and French embassy in Beirut getting attacked, also Hezbollah getting ready.

This could well spread north into Lebanon.

MI5 warning of increased attacks in the UK and in Europe more widely.

My initial reaction to the paragliding attack, where Hamas broke into compounds and murdered innocent people, was that this was to provoke Isreal into attacking Gaza. The crime was so heinous, so Barbaric, it could only be to draw the IDF in. I fully expected Isreal’s hostile neighbours to attack.

God help Israelis if they prevail as there will be no leafleting, no warning, you really will see a genocide if they cannot defend their borders. No two state solution in that scenario. Every time their neighbours have felt strong enough, they have attempted this.

Britain indeed will be a target given it was largely the actions of the empire which created this mess. I’m not sure what we can do now. If the west stop supporting Isreal I’m certain every last man, woman and child will have a death sentence.

Hezbollah and Hamas occupying the Israelis? Jesus H Christ that is one dark humanitarian hole and one to dwarf the genocide of then last century.

One aspect I’ve forgotten here is that isreal I think unofficially are a nuclear armed nation. In which case I wonder whether Tehran has the bomb?

If Hezbollah or Iran attack, then we have a right pickle.

This is a horrible mess, religion at its core and I feel for ordinary folks on both sides who are suffering.

There just doesn’t seem to be a solution. I do fear that this will end up as a permanent war until a neighbouring county get the bomb in which case it’s end times.

I’m finding myself flitting from sympathy with Palestine as underdogs and dispossessed, to with the Israelis as you can’t really negotiate with people who essentially want you gone.

I can’t go all in with Hamas as most seem to have above as we all know full well they are nutjobs.

Seems the most sensible solution is Palestine stops attacking, recognises Isreals right to exist, and accepts 2 states alongside each other as a negotiated peace. I can’t see any other scenario as Isreal will not be voluntarily packing up and leaving.

[oldie]

I fear, after the terrible events of the past ten days, there may well be no rowing back from this. The cancellation of Biden's meetings being indicative.
If Iran gets involved, supplied and supported by Russia then, with Ukraine as a backdrop, then we may well have nuclear conflict. A total disaster.

[gulfofaden]

Oct 18, 2023 6:57:03 GMT oldie said:

I fear, after the terrible events of the past ten days, there may well be no rowing back from this. The cancellation of Biden's meetings being indicative.
If Iran gets involved, supplied and supported by Russia then, with Ukraine as a backdrop, then we may well have nuclear conflict. A total disaster.

For once we agree Oldie. This has archduke Franz Ferdinand written all over it.

Perhaps the Fermi paradox, the curious observation that the universe should be teeming with life but we cannot see anything outside our planet has a good reason: Civilisations destroy themselves before this is possible.

I am hopeful the mutual deterrent of obliteration means we will have 1984 style wars in oceana, endless regional conflict, with no one bold enough to pull the trigger.

Ironic that those who claimed to be the saviours of humanity, the religious, ultimately may bring forth its entire catastrophic destruction.

[gashead79]

Oct 17, 2023 15:52:46 GMT RD said:

Oct 17, 2023 15:29:54 GMT gashead79 said:

You've changed your mind because the media has shaped your thoughts.

Israel is retaliating.
There have been plenty of genocides over the last 25 years, were you affected in the same way?

What constitutes WW3? When the news tells us? There's already plenty of nations involved in Ukr v Rus and now this anyway.

f**k me, I know you post some sh*t, but you need to get a grip.

I honestly thought you had a higher intellectual capability than your recent post purports, but to help you along a little:

- Israel is retaliating; okay? Does that make it alright then? Surely the slaughter of innocent civilians is unacceptable? Or are you okay with innocent men, women and children being killed in "retaliation"?
- There have been plenty of genocides over the last 25 years, were you affected in the same way? Well I'm not old enough to have been affected personally by as many over the past 25 years as I'd have been too young for some of them to have understood what was happening. Had I have been, then of course I would have - the loss of innocent human life is always a catastrophe
- What constitutes WW3? When the news tells us? There's already plenty of nations involved in Ukr v Rus and now this anyway - Again, perhaps intellectually out of your reach, but for the avoidance of doubt, WW3 would mean that multiple countries across the globe, were involved in direct conflict. Proxy wars do not constitute World Wars, and I suggest you do some historical research to help you along with this concept.

And finally, no - I have not "changed my mind because the media has shaped your thoughts". The atrocities being reported are factual. Yes you can argue that if communication did not exist with humanity I'd be blind to it and unaffected, but that's a completely bizarre view. Communication does exist, as part of that I am aware of the atrocities Israelis are piling upon innocent Palestinian men, women and children and yes - I have a problem with that. But that has not "changed". I would never have been okay with that - reporting via the news or otherwise. Hamas deserve to burn in hell, I have no issue with them being wiped off the face of the earth. But that doesn't mean I'm okay with the completely avoidable mass slaughter of innocent civilians.

Listen, I know you like to being a complete f**king d1ck on here, suggesting we play in red or whatever, but it's time you got called out on your complete horsesh*t. Suck it up.

You've lost your mind because of the news.
Switch it off and concentrate your family.
The way you and others are carrying on is like watching puppets on strings. There's so many atrocities carried out yearly in places around the world and you are oblivious.
Call me names as much as you like RD, it only shows childish frustration on a chat board.

What is happening is terrible of course, but seeing people's become war advisors overnight is frankly ridiculous.

Carry on.

[gashead79]

Oct 18, 2023 6:57:03 GMT oldie said:

I fear, after the terrible events of the past ten days, there may well be no rowing back from this. The cancellation of Biden's meetings being indicative.
If Iran gets involved, supplied and supported by Russia then, with Ukraine as a backdrop, then we may well have nuclear conflict. A total disaster.

If Iran gets involved?
😄 seriously? Come on, catch up!

[gulfofaden]

If it does get nuclear, paint yourself white and hide under the stairs.

[oldie]

Oct 18, 2023 7:23:44 GMT gashead79 said:

Oct 18, 2023 6:57:03 GMT oldie said:

I fear, after the terrible events of the past ten days, there may well be no rowing back from this. The cancellation of Biden's meetings being indicative.
If Iran gets involved, supplied and supported by Russia then, with Ukraine as a backdrop, then we may well have nuclear conflict. A total disaster.

If Iran gets involved?
😄 seriously? Come on, catch up!

If only you had any idea of the politics and social tension in Iran.
You dig at RD but then do what you accuse him of with regard to Iran.
Of course you may prove me wrong and post something more than a single sentence and show you have some knowledge.

I won't hold my breath.

[stuart1974]

Take a step back guys, this isn't going to go nuclear or WWIII.

It's a regional conflict that will overspill with isolated terrorist acts, bad as they will be, they won't result in Europe starting a bombing campaign or invasion of Iran.

What we will see is Iran supporting the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah. Israel's neighbours are mostly on side in that they won't get involved (Egypt, Iraq, and Jordan).

Iran is an outlier but they are rational people on a whole and their first duty is to survive. They won’t do that by intervening directly so are likely to keep supplying Hezbollah, for example. They are physically detached from Israel, so anything coming from there (army, aircraft) won't get far. That's why the US has carriers and other assets in the region.

Israel does have nuclear weapons but the point of nuclear weapons is to act as a deterrent against conventional war or other nuclear states. They won’t use them unless it's doomsday but I can't see that happening.

There are several reasons why Israel has yet to commit ground forces, some practical and some political. The latter being the US in the main.

[gashead79]

Oct 18, 2023 8:15:31 GMT oldie said:

Oct 18, 2023 7:23:44 GMT gashead79 said:

If Iran gets involved?
😄 seriously? Come on, catch up!

If only you had any idea of the politics and social tension in Iran.
You dig at RD but then do what you accuse him of with regard to Iran.
Of course you may prove me wrong and post something more than a single sentence and show you have some knowledge.

I won't hold my breath.

No idea, I'm a clueless f*cking d1ckhead who posts total sh**e.
You lads and ladies carry on, please.
Feel free to hold your breath though 😄.

Also, apologies to anyone I have offended, didn't mean to✋️.

[stuart1974]

Oct 18, 2023 8:35:37 GMT gashead79 said:

Oct 18, 2023 8:15:31 GMT oldie said:

If only you had any idea of the politics and social tension in Iran.
You dig at RD but then do what you accuse him of with regard to Iran.
Of course you may prove me wrong and post something more than a single sentence and show you have some knowledge.

I won't hold my breath.

No idea, I'm a clueless f*cking d1ckhead who posts total sh**e.
You lads and ladies carry on, please.
Feel free to hold your breath though 😄.

Also, apologies to anyone I have offended, didn't mean to✋️.

Join the club. 👍