Israel

[baggins]

That's about to kick off big time.

[gashead79]

Hopefully Hamas get obliterated.
This will rumble on and there's no foreign influence that can help.
Trump did a bit but there's nobody else who has the ability to get amongst that.
War makes money so this is fantastic news for manufacturers of munitions and the news channels.

[aghast]

Oh well I'll bite.

In theory I don't support any kind of violence, but I can understand the frustration of the Palestinians as the armed conflict slows down and they are slowly taken over and invaded almost by stealth as the Israelis build their houses over Palestinian territory.

It's almost like a British Empire domination, or the Chinese in Africa now. No need for war. Just take over their homes, lives and economies.

Hamas have messed all that up a bit. I have some sympathies but I don't think Hamas are the vehicle to a lasting peace of any kind at all. Trouble is, it seems to me, sensible moderates are always seen as compromising themselves and betraying their original aims as a possible solution is found, which inevitably is a compromise and will never please everyone.

Expect decades more conflict.

[yattongas]

Oct 7, 2023 22:15:49 GMT gashead79 said:

Hopefully Hamas get obliterated.
This will rumble on and there's no foreign influence that can help.
Trump did a bit but there's nobody else who has the ability to get amongst that.
War makes money so this is fantastic news for manufacturers of munitions and the news channels.. 

Trump did a bit but there’s nobody else who has the ability to get amongst that. 

What in the hell does that even mean ? 

[gashead79]

Oct 7, 2023 22:58:42 GMT aghast said:

Oh well I'll bite.

In theory I don't support any kind of violence, but I can understand the frustration of the Palestinians as the armed conflict slows down and they are slowly taken over and invaded almost by stealth as the Israelis build their houses over Palestinian territory.

It's almost like a British Empire domination, or the Chinese in Africa now. No need for war. Just take over their homes, lives and economies.

Hamas have messed all that up a bit. I have some sympathies but I don't think Hamas are the vehicle to a lasting peace of any kind at all. Trouble is, it seems to me, sensible moderates are always seen as compromising themselves and betraying their original aims as a possible solution is found, which inevitably is a compromise and will never please everyone.

Expect decades more conflict.

There cannot be peace in that region so one side will inevitably have to fall. Hamas have just helped that process and Isreal will tighten the grip further.
Hamas will have financial support from some Muslim nations so this is just a perfect proxy battlefield for the ages old conflict between the west and those countries.

[gashead79]

Oct 8, 2023 6:35:13 GMT yattongas said:

Oct 7, 2023 22:15:49 GMT gashead79 said:

Hopefully Hamas get obliterated.
This will rumble on and there's no foreign influence that can help.
Trump did a bit but there's nobody else who has the ability to get amongst that.
War makes money so this is fantastic news for manufacturers of munitions and the news channels.. 

Trump did a bit but there’s nobody else who has the ability to get amongst that. 

What in the hell does that even mean ? 

Peace plan by foreigners Yatton.
Only Trump got into it with any venom whereas other leaders like ours just comment from the sidelines.

[yattongas]

Oct 8, 2023 7:17:30 GMT gashead79 said:

Oct 8, 2023 6:35:13 GMT yattongas said:

Trump did a bit but there’s nobody else who has the ability to get amongst that. 

What in the hell does that even mean ? 

Peace plan by foreigners Yatton.
Only Trump got into it with any venom whereas other leaders like ours just comment from the sidelines.

Just read it , rejected out of hand . You honestly think that Trump has the answers to the conflict? 😂

Gotta admit I know far too little to have an opinion but will leave this conversation to experts like yourself & Trump 🤦‍♂️

[gashead79]

Oct 8, 2023 7:36:05 GMT yattongas said:

Oct 8, 2023 7:17:30 GMT gashead79 said:

Peace plan by foreigners Yatton.
Only Trump got into it with any venom whereas other leaders like ours just comment from the sidelines.

Just read it , rejected out of hand . You honestly think that Trump has the answers to the conflict? 😂

Gotta admit I know far too little to have an opinion but will leave this conversation to experts like yourself & Trump 🤦‍♂️

Why do you have to resort to being silly?

I did not say that Trump had the answers did I?
I am also not an expert.

Yes, best leave it because here's another perfect example of innability...

Have a good day.👍🏼

[yattongas]

Oct 8, 2023 8:00:10 GMT gashead79 said:

Oct 8, 2023 7:36:05 GMT yattongas said:

Just read it , rejected out of hand . You honestly think that Trump has the answers to the conflict? 😂

Gotta admit I know far too little to have an opinion but will leave this conversation to experts like yourself & Trump 🤦‍♂️

Why do you have to resort to being silly?

I did not say that Trump had the answers did I?
I am also not an expert.

Yes, best leave it because here's another perfect example of innability...

Have a good day.👍🏼

It wasn’t me that said that Trump ‘ did a bit’ . Trump done f all . That was silly 🙄
Next you’ll be saying that Trump can solve the Russia Ukraine war in 24hrs .

Have a good day Simon 😀

[trevorgas]

Oct 8, 2023 8:04:47 GMT yattongas said:

Oct 8, 2023 8:00:10 GMT gashead79 said:

Why do you have to resort to being silly?

I did not say that Trump had the answers did I?
I am also not an expert.

Yes, best leave it because here's another perfect example of innability...

Have a good day.👍🏼

It wasn’t me that said that Trump ‘ did a bit’ . Trump done f all . That was silly 🙄
Next you’ll be saying that Trump can solve the Russia Ukraine war in 24hrs .

Have a good day Simon 😀

He will,siding with Putin and withdrawing US aid,that will well and truly f..k Ukraine and give Putin a starting pistol for a potential incursion into Poland etc ,to restore " Greater Russia".

[yattongas]

Oct 8, 2023 8:26:54 GMT trevorgas said:

Oct 8, 2023 8:04:47 GMT yattongas said:

It wasn’t me that said that Trump ‘ did a bit’ . Trump done f all . That was silly 🙄
Next you’ll be saying that Trump can solve the Russia Ukraine war in 24hrs .

Have a good day Simon 😀

He will,siding with Putin and withdrawing US aid,that will well and truly f..k Ukraine and give Putin a starting pistol for a potential incursion into Poland etc ,to restore " Greater Russia".

Exactly. A bit like his plan to give  Palestinians less territory than the previous proposal and give Israel right to the entire Jordan Valley. 

[oldie]

Oct 8, 2023 7:16:01 GMT gashead79 said:

Oct 7, 2023 22:58:42 GMT aghast said:

Oh well I'll bite.

In theory I don't support any kind of violence, but I can understand the frustration of the Palestinians as the armed conflict slows down and they are slowly taken over and invaded almost by stealth as the Israelis build their houses over Palestinian territory.

It's almost like a British Empire domination, or the Chinese in Africa now. No need for war. Just take over their homes, lives and economies.

Hamas have messed all that up a bit. I have some sympathies but I don't think Hamas are the vehicle to a lasting peace of any kind at all. Trouble is, it seems to me, sensible moderates are always seen as compromising themselves and betraying their original aims as a possible solution is found, which inevitably is a compromise and will never please everyone.

Expect decades more conflict.

There cannot be peace in that region so one side will inevitably have to fall. Hamas have just helped that process and Isreal will tighten the grip further.
Hamas will have financial support from some Muslim nations so this is just a perfect proxy battlefield for the ages old conflict between the west and those countries.

The basis for a lasting peace is available. If Israel withdraws to the borders that existed before the 1967 war. This is/was a UN mandate. Never enforced.

Just imagine if we had not got our (UK) sticky fingers involved in the Middle East, starting (politically at least, we were into oil already) with the Balfour Declaration in 1917 and the carve up (with the French) of what we used to call Mesopotamia. We also supported the Saud family to power in what was a nomadic territory.

Did anyone mention oil?

[gashead79]

Oct 8, 2023 8:58:36 GMT oldie said:

Oct 8, 2023 7:16:01 GMT gashead79 said:

There cannot be peace in that region so one side will inevitably have to fall. Hamas have just helped that process and Isreal will tighten the grip further.
Hamas will have financial support from some Muslim nations so this is just a perfect proxy battlefield for the ages old conflict between the west and those countries.

The basis for a lasting peace is available. If Israel withdraws to the borders that existed before the 1967 war. This is/was a UN mandate. Never enforced.

Just imagine if we had not got our (UK) sticky fingers involved in the Middle East, starting (politically at least, we were into oil already) with the Balfour Declaration in 1917 and the carve up (with the French) of what we used to call Mesopotamia. We also supported the Saud family to power in what was a nomadic territory.

Did anyone mention oil?

The UK has/had its fingers in lots of things. Mostly for the benefit of the UK, its interests and citizens.
Israel pulling back doesn't guarantee peace or erase history.
Wars make money and some of the biggest companies on Earth require conflict.
Ukraine has generated alot of revenue for manufacturers, and some of them will be rewriting their financial forecasts now that this has reignited.

Oil, minerals, metals, spices, whatever..the countries that can, will make moves to secure the stuff it needs to maintain power. It's been happening since the beginning and won't ever end until there's nothing left.

[stuart1974]

Oct 8, 2023 7:17:30 GMT gashead79 said:

Oct 8, 2023 6:35:13 GMT yattongas said:

Trump did a bit but there’s nobody else who has the ability to get amongst that. 

What in the hell does that even mean ? 

Peace plan by foreigners Yatton.
Only Trump got into it with any venom whereas other leaders like ours just comment from the sidelines.

There was a decent peace plan in the 1990s but that fell. Whilst Trump did propose a new one it was very one sided and could almost be written by Likud itself. Indeed it was drafted by his son in law iirc.

Trump's foreign policy was pure showmanship with North Korea and getting out of Afghanistan by nievely believing the Taliban. Moving the embassy to Jerusalem was seen as inflammatory.

[oldie]

Oct 8, 2023 9:08:47 GMT gashead79 said:

Oct 8, 2023 8:58:36 GMT oldie said:

The basis for a lasting peace is available. If Israel withdraws to the borders that existed before the 1967 war. This is/was a UN mandate. Never enforced.

Just imagine if we had not got our (UK) sticky fingers involved in the Middle East, starting (politically at least, we were into oil already) with the Balfour Declaration in 1917 and the carve up (with the French) of what we used to call Mesopotamia. We also supported the Saud family to power in what was a nomadic territory.

Did anyone mention oil?

The UK has/had its fingers in lots of things. Mostly for the benefit of the UK, its interests and citizens.
Israel pulling back doesn't guarantee peace or erase history.
Wars make money and some of the biggest companies on Earth require conflict.
Ukraine has generated alot of revenue for manufacturers, and some of them will be rewriting their financial forecasts now that this has reignited.

Oil, minerals, metals, spices, whatever..the countries that can, will make moves to secure the stuff it needs to maintain power. It's been happening since the beginning and won't ever end until there's nothing left.

That's a hell of a negative attitude and vision to hand down to your children and grandchildren.

[stuart1974]

Oct 8, 2023 8:26:54 GMT trevorgas said:

Oct 8, 2023 8:04:47 GMT yattongas said:

It wasn’t me that said that Trump ‘ did a bit’ . Trump done f all . That was silly 🙄
Next you’ll be saying that Trump can solve the Russia Ukraine war in 24hrs .

Have a good day Simon 😀

He will,siding with Putin and withdrawing US aid,that will well and truly f..k Ukraine and give Putin a starting pistol for a potential incursion into Poland etc ,to restore " Greater Russia".

Iran supports both Hamas and Russia so there will be inevitable cross overs, just look at how the Merkava was disabled with a drone dropping munitions on to the turret.

[gashead79]

Oct 8, 2023 9:15:03 GMT oldie said:

Oct 8, 2023 9:08:47 GMT gashead79 said:

The UK has/had its fingers in lots of things. Mostly for the benefit of the UK, its interests and citizens.
Israel pulling back doesn't guarantee peace or erase history.
Wars make money and some of the biggest companies on Earth require conflict.
Ukraine has generated alot of revenue for manufacturers, and some of them will be rewriting their financial forecasts now that this has reignited.

Oil, minerals, metals, spices, whatever..the countries that can, will make moves to secure the stuff it needs to maintain power. It's been happening since the beginning and won't ever end until there's nothing left.

That's a hell of a negative attitude and vision to hand down to your children and grandchildren.

Indeed it is.
The alternative is what? To dream about world peace.🤨

Please don't concern yourself with my children and their upbringing. We are fine thank you.

The hypocrisy will reign supreme here too. Many of the peace activists and concerned onlookers are financially tied to conflict. Probably most of the posters on this chat too. Awkward eh!

[yattongas]

Oct 8, 2023 9:30:56 GMT gashead79 said:

Oct 8, 2023 9:15:03 GMT oldie said:

That's a hell of a negative attitude and vision to hand down to your children and grandchildren.

Indeed it is.
The alternative is what? To dream about world peace.🤨

Please don't concern yourself with my children and their upbringing. We are fine thank you.

The hypocrisy will reign supreme here too. Many of the peace activists and concerned onlookers are financially tied to conflict. Probably most of the posters on this chat too. Awkward eh!

You don’t half speak some bollox 🙄

[gashead79]

Oct 8, 2023 9:10:39 GMT stuart1974 said:

Oct 8, 2023 7:17:30 GMT gashead79 said:

Peace plan by foreigners Yatton.
Only Trump got into it with any venom whereas other leaders like ours just comment from the sidelines.

There was a decent peace plan in the 1990s but that fell. Whilst Trump did propose a new one it was very one sided and could almost be written by Likud itself. Indeed it was drafted by his son in law iirc.

Trump's foreign policy was pure showmanship with North Korea and getting out of Afghanistan by nievely believing the Taliban. Moving the embassy to Jerusalem was seen as inflammatory.

Any plan drawn up will be criticised by some. This has been ongoing for decades and won't stop...Well they might chill but the tension will remain.

[gashead79]

Oct 8, 2023 9:35:58 GMT yattongas said:

Oct 8, 2023 9:30:56 GMT gashead79 said:

Indeed it is.
The alternative is what? To dream about world peace.🤨

Please don't concern yourself with my children and their upbringing. We are fine thank you.

The hypocrisy will reign supreme here too. Many of the peace activists and concerned onlookers are financially tied to conflict. Probably most of the posters on this chat too. Awkward eh!

You don’t half speak some bollox 🙄

Which part?
I thought you'd left the convo anyway?
We can't agree Yatton but try not to be rude if you can.