Israel

[Gassy]

Oct 17, 2023 8:40:50 GMT popuppirate said:

Oct 17, 2023 8:29:23 GMT Gassy said:

That’s a fair point, although it doesn’t have much to do with my finding an opinion amusing.

Out of interest, how do you protest it? (That’s a genuine question, not a dig)

Attend a Pro-Palestinian march ? I haven't, and not sure I would either if I'm honest. Raise awareness maybe, call out bu11sh1t if you hear it, write to your MP. I'd rather do something than laugh at idealist opinions on something so sensitive, but I understand the point that it's probably so futile it's almost laughable. That in itself demonstrates what a sad state the world is in

Have you done those things? If you believe your opinion is sensitive, that’s your prerogative. My point is not about Israel but about Britains dirty history and how we will never call out any ally.

[Gassy]

Oct 17, 2023 8:51:48 GMT stuart1974 said:

Oct 17, 2023 8:16:17 GMT Gassy said:

Completely agree

I see Biden is on his way to Israel. This isn't something done at no notice unless he and the State Department are worried, probably trying to slow the Israeli response and cool things down.

The despatch of two carriers and other assets will be a show of force to the wider region, most notably Iran and Hezbollah. I read the other day that the Lebanese Army 'suddenly' found an arms cache.

That, with Irans warnings of violence on the Israeli border is a concern. Feels like the beginning of WW3 really doesn’t it?

[stuart1974]

Oct 17, 2023 8:59:01 GMT Gassy said:

Oct 17, 2023 8:51:48 GMT stuart1974 said:

I see Biden is on his way to Israel. This isn't something done at no notice unless he and the State Department are worried, probably trying to slow the Israeli response and cool things down.

The despatch of two carriers and other assets will be a show of force to the wider region, most notably Iran and Hezbollah. I read the other day that the Lebanese Army 'suddenly' found an arms cache.

That, with Irans warnings of violence on the Israeli border is a concern. Feels like the beginning of WW3 really doesn’t it?

Hamas' leadership reside in Doha, it's so inter-twined.

Tobias Ellwood was on Sky earlier, amongst the things discussed he felt the UN has morphed into the League of Nations. Not a good comparison.

[popuppirate]

Oct 17, 2023 8:56:43 GMT Gassy said:

Oct 17, 2023 8:40:50 GMT popuppirate said:

Attend a Pro-Palestinian march ? I haven't, and not sure I would either if I'm honest. Raise awareness maybe, call out bu11sh1t if you hear it, write to your MP. I'd rather do something than laugh at idealist opinions on something so sensitive, but I understand the point that it's probably so futile it's almost laughable. That in itself demonstrates what a sad state the world is in

Have you done those things? If you believe your opinion is sensitive, that’s your prerogative. My point is not about Israel but about Britains dirty history and how we will never call out any ally.

With friends like that who needs friends. Yeah, I've done all of those bar attend a protest march. It's the situation I view as sensitive, not so much my opinions on it.

[pirate]

Oct 17, 2023 7:04:59 GMT francegas said:

Pirate I'm not reading that lot. You could have replied to my question to you in just a few lines.

You might deny a genocide is taking place, but an expert on the matter, Raz Segal, says it is "a textbook case of genocide."

"We need to recognize what’s going on around us, what’s unfolding in front of our eyes, which is really a textbook case of genocide, with the rhetoric, with the actions, with everything involved." - Professor Raz Segal, an Associate Professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Stockton University and the endowed professor in the study of modern genocide.

[oldie]

Oct 17, 2023 8:54:48 GMT Gassy said:

Oct 17, 2023 8:44:06 GMT oldie said:

You are not alone.
Expect a torrent of abuse for expressing such a view point.

From who or where, Oldie? Be specific and back up your views why you’d expect that?

Not from you Gassy.
But you yourself have witnessed comments like "why do you hate your country" amongst more insulting comments for daring to challenge the taught history of the UK.
There are many that do not like having the reality of that history brought out into the open.

[RD]

When Hamas struck, I was definitely on Israel's side in so much as the plan to rid the world of Hamas. That I was 100% behind.

But since then, it is clear - undeniable in the main - that this is a genocide. I'm just lost for words really. What a total an utter catastrophe.

I wouldn't be surprised if this does spiral in to WW3 to be honest. And even if it doesn't, what has happened and what is to come will be utterly abhorrent regardless.

[Gassy]

Oct 17, 2023 9:31:52 GMT oldie said:

Oct 17, 2023 8:54:48 GMT Gassy said:

From who or where, Oldie? Be specific and back up your views why you’d expect that?

Not from you Gassy.
But you yourself have witnessed comments like "why do you hate your country" amongst more insulting comments for daring to challenge the taught history of the UK.
There are many that do not like having the reality of that history brought out into the open.

I mean, thats exactly the point I'm trying to make tbh Oldie, but yeah agreed.

[trevorgas]

Oct 17, 2023 11:28:19 GMT RD said:

When Hamas struck, I was definitely on Israel's side in so much as the plan to rid the world of Hamas. That I was 100% behind.

But since then, it is clear - undeniable in the main - that this is a genocide. I'm just lost for words really. What a total an utter catastrophe.

I wouldn't be surprised if this does spiral in to WW3 to be honest. And even if it doesn't, what has happened and what is to come will be utterly abhorrent regardless.

Absolutely,well said

[trevorgas]

Oct 17, 2023 9:29:57 GMT pirate said:

Oct 17, 2023 7:04:59 GMT francegas said:

Pirate I'm not reading that lot. You could have replied to my question to you in just a few lines.

You might deny a genocide is taking place, but an expert on the matter, Raz Segal, says it is "a textbook case of genocide."

"We need to recognize what’s going on around us, what’s unfolding in front of our eyes, which is really a textbook case of genocide, with the rhetoric, with the actions, with everything involved." - Professor Raz Segal, an Associate Professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Stockton University and the endowed professor in the study of modern genocide.

Probably right,if it's not then what is it, Israel has concluded that the only to eliminate Hamas is to eliminate Gaza,post military action what price further settlements?

[heartofgas]

It's hard to see how this can all end. The conflict has been going on for such a long time. Each side see it as their right to the land and obviously there is the religious context to it. There has been so much death and destruction how can anyone forgive the other side. it's the worst of human nature on display. Just a very sad situation and terrible for those caught up in it.

[gashead79]

Oct 17, 2023 11:28:19 GMT RD said:

When Hamas struck, I was definitely on Israel's side in so much as the plan to rid the world of Hamas. That I was 100% behind.

But since then, it is clear - undeniable in the main - that this is a genocide. I'm just lost for words really. What a total an utter catastrophe.

I wouldn't be surprised if this does spiral in to WW3 to be honest. And even if it doesn't, what has happened and what is to come will be utterly abhorrent regardless.

You've changed your mind because the media has shaped your thoughts.

Israel is retaliating.
There have been plenty of genocides over the last 25 years, were you affected in the same way?

What constitutes WW3? When the news tells us? There's already plenty of nations involved in Ukr v Rus and now this anyway.

[RD]

Oct 17, 2023 15:29:54 GMT gashead79 said:

Oct 17, 2023 11:28:19 GMT RD said:

When Hamas struck, I was definitely on Israel's side in so much as the plan to rid the world of Hamas. That I was 100% behind.

But since then, it is clear - undeniable in the main - that this is a genocide. I'm just lost for words really. What a total an utter catastrophe.

I wouldn't be surprised if this does spiral in to WW3 to be honest. And even if it doesn't, what has happened and what is to come will be utterly abhorrent regardless.

You've changed your mind because the media has shaped your thoughts.

Israel is retaliating.
There have been plenty of genocides over the last 25 years, were you affected in the same way?

What constitutes WW3? When the news tells us? There's already plenty of nations involved in Ukr v Rus and now this anyway.

f**k me, I know you post some sh*t, but you need to get a grip.

I honestly thought you had a higher intellectual capability than your recent post purports, but to help you along a little:

- Israel is retaliating; okay? Does that make it alright then? Surely the slaughter of innocent civilians is unacceptable? Or are you okay with innocent men, women and children being killed in "retaliation"?
- There have been plenty of genocides over the last 25 years, were you affected in the same way? Well I'm not old enough to have been affected personally by as many over the past 25 years as I'd have been too young for some of them to have understood what was happening. Had I have been, then of course I would have - the loss of innocent human life is always a catastrophe
- What constitutes WW3? When the news tells us? There's already plenty of nations involved in Ukr v Rus and now this anyway - Again, perhaps intellectually out of your reach, but for the avoidance of doubt, WW3 would mean that multiple countries across the globe, were involved in direct conflict. Proxy wars do not constitute World Wars, and I suggest you do some historical research to help you along with this concept.

And finally, no - I have not "changed my mind because the media has shaped your thoughts". The atrocities being reported are factual. Yes you can argue that if communication did not exist with humanity I'd be blind to it and unaffected, but that's a completely bizarre view. Communication does exist, as part of that I am aware of the atrocities Israelis are piling upon innocent Palestinian men, women and children and yes - I have a problem with that. But that has not "changed". I would never have been okay with that - reporting via the news or otherwise. Hamas deserve to burn in hell, I have no issue with them being wiped off the face of the earth. But that doesn't mean I'm okay with the completely avoidable mass slaughter of innocent civilians.

Listen, I know you like to being a complete f**king d1ck on here, suggesting we play in red or whatever, but it's time you got called out on your complete horsesh*t. Suck it up.

[oldie]

Oct 17, 2023 15:52:46 GMT RD said:

Oct 17, 2023 15:29:54 GMT gashead79 said:

You've changed your mind because the media has shaped your thoughts.

Israel is retaliating.
There have been plenty of genocides over the last 25 years, were you affected in the same way?

What constitutes WW3? When the news tells us? There's already plenty of nations involved in Ukr v Rus and now this anyway.

f**k me, I know you post some sh*t, but you need to get a grip.

I honestly thought you had a higher intellectual capability than your recent post purports, but to help you along a little:

- Israel is retaliating; okay? Does that make it alright then? Surely the slaughter of innocent civilians is unacceptable? Or are you okay with innocent men, women and children being killed in "retaliation"?
- There have been plenty of genocides over the last 25 years, were you affected in the same way? Well I'm not old enough to have been affected personally by as many over the past 25 years as I'd have been too young for some of them to have understood what was happening. Had I have been, then of course I would have - the loss of innocent human life is always a catastrophe
- What constitutes WW3? When the news tells us? There's already plenty of nations involved in Ukr v Rus and now this anyway - Again, perhaps intellectually out of your reach, but for the avoidance of doubt, WW3 would mean that multiple countries across the globe, were involved in direct conflict. Proxy wars do not constitute World Wars, and I suggest you do some historical research to help you along with this concept.

And finally, no - I have not "changed my mind because the media has shaped your thoughts". The atrocities being reported are factual. Yes you can argue that if communication did not exist with humanity I'd be blind to it and unaffected, but that's a completely bizarre view. Communication does exist, as part of that I am aware of the atrocities Israelis are piling upon innocent Palestinian men, women and children and yes - I have a problem with that. But that has not "changed". I would never have been okay with that - reporting via the news or otherwise. Hamas deserve to burn in hell, I have no issue with them being wiped off the face of the earth. But that doesn't mean I'm okay with the completely avoidable mass slaughter of innocent civilians.

Listen, I know you like to being a complete f**king d1ck on here, suggesting we play in red or whatever, but it's time you got called out on your complete horsesh*t. Suck it up.

Don't let his views get to you mate.

[francegas]

Oct 17, 2023 9:29:57 GMT pirate said:

Oct 17, 2023 7:04:59 GMT francegas said:

Pirate I'm not reading that lot. You could have replied to my question to you in just a few lines.

You might deny a genocide is taking place, but an expert on the matter, Raz Segal, says it is "a textbook case of genocide."

"We need to recognize what’s going on around us, what’s unfolding in front of our eyes, which is really a textbook case of genocide, with the rhetoric, with the actions, with everything involved." - Professor Raz Segal, an Associate Professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Stockton University and the endowed professor in the study of modern genocide.

And yet you still fail to answer my question so I'll try again. What is a proportionate response by Israel, how many innocent civilians are they allowed to kill, how many hostages can Israel take, how many children/babies can they kill and women raped to make it proportionate in your view.
You say it's an unfair fight well who the hell fired the first Rocket. Did Hamas seriously believe they could take on the might of Israel and win ?.

[oldie]

Oct 17, 2023 16:24:13 GMT francegas said:

Oct 17, 2023 9:29:57 GMT pirate said:

You might deny a genocide is taking place, but an expert on the matter, Raz Segal, says it is "a textbook case of genocide."

"We need to recognize what’s going on around us, what’s unfolding in front of our eyes, which is really a textbook case of genocide, with the rhetoric, with the actions, with everything involved." - Professor Raz Segal, an Associate Professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Stockton University and the endowed professor in the study of modern genocide.

And yet you still fail to answer my question so I'll try again. What is a proportionate response by Israel, how many innocent civilians are they allowed to kill, how many hostages can Israel take, how many children/babies can they kill and women raped to make it proportionate in your view.
You say it's an unfair fight well who the hell fired the first Rocket. Did Hamas seriously believe they could take on the might of Israel and win ?.

Certainly not this

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67119233

[RD]

Oct 17, 2023 16:47:27 GMT oldie said:

Oct 17, 2023 16:24:13 GMT francegas said:

And yet you still fail to answer my question so I'll try again. What is a proportionate response by Israel, how many innocent civilians are they allowed to kill, how many hostages can Israel take, how many children/babies can they kill and women raped to make it proportionate in your view.
You say it's an unfair fight well who the hell fired the first Rocket. Did Hamas seriously believe they could take on the might of Israel and win ?.

Certainly not this

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67119233

Horrific. Totally inexcusable. These are war crimes. End of.

[pirate]

Oct 17, 2023 16:24:13 GMT francegas said:

Oct 17, 2023 9:29:57 GMT pirate said:

You might deny a genocide is taking place, but an expert on the matter, Raz Segal, says it is "a textbook case of genocide."

"We need to recognize what’s going on around us, what’s unfolding in front of our eyes, which is really a textbook case of genocide, with the rhetoric, with the actions, with everything involved." - Professor Raz Segal, an Associate Professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Stockton University and the endowed professor in the study of modern genocide.

And yet you still fail to answer my question so I'll try again. What is a proportionate response by Israel, how many innocent civilians are they allowed to kill, how many hostages can Israel take, how many children/babies can they kill and women raped to make it proportionate in your view.
You say it's an unfair fight well who the hell fired the first Rocket. Did Hamas seriously believe they could take on the might of Israel and win ?.

A proportionate response would be to do a thorough forensic investigation into the apparent security failure and into the attacks themselves and individually target those responsible, not collectively punish and terrorise an entire innocent civilian population (half of whom are children) and commit what, you deny, but experts conclude is "a textbook case of genocide."

[oldie]

Oct 17, 2023 17:00:08 GMT RD said:

Oct 17, 2023 16:47:27 GMT oldie said:

Certainly not this

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67119233

Horrific. Totally inexcusable. These are war crimes. End of.

Nor this.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67119233

[pirate]

Oct 17, 2023 16:47:27 GMT oldie said:

Oct 17, 2023 16:24:13 GMT francegas said:

And yet you still fail to answer my question so I'll try again. What is a proportionate response by Israel, how many innocent civilians are they allowed to kill, how many hostages can Israel take, how many children/babies can they kill and women raped to make it proportionate in your view.
You say it's an unfair fight well who the hell fired the first Rocket. Did Hamas seriously believe they could take on the might of Israel and win ?.

Certainly not this

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67119233

Horrific war crimes.