Israel

[popuppirate]

Oct 16, 2023 20:42:08 GMT Gassy said:

Does anyone actually expect Britain to admit that an ally is committing war crimes?

After the history of the British Empire? 🤣

There's nothing particularly funny about it. The action and rhetoric from our government is appalling

[pirate]

Oct 16, 2023 8:07:32 GMT francegas said:

Oct 15, 2023 17:01:25 GMT pirate said:

Surely everyone agrees Hamas' crimes are disgusting, but the response from the Israelis has been totally disproportionate and their reaction has been to commit mass war crimes and collective punishment on the innocent civilian population (around half of whom are children) who have been subjected to an inhumane land, sea and air blockade for the past 16 years. The Palestinians are being genocided by a powerful Israeli military machine funded to the tune of £3billion per year from the US and Palestinians don't even have a proper army, navy or air force to protect them. This isn't a fair fight or even a "war"...this is a genocide.

You say the response from Israel is disproportionate can I ask, in your view, what would be a proportionate response? how many innocent Palestinians can Israel kill to make it proportionate?

The bombing of Coventry was the single most concentrated attack on a British City during World war 2. In one night 4300 homes were destroyed and an estimated 554 deaths.It is said that Churchill ordered the bombing of Dresden as payback for Coventry. The bombing of Dresden killed in excess of 25000 people. Was Dresden in your view disproportionate, was it genocide, was it a war crime? It probably helped to bring the war in Europe to an end.

Was Hiroshima disproportionate even though it effectively bought the war to an end?

Imagine if these events hadn't happened where would the world be now?

If Hammas decide to attack the state of Israel who as you say are a military machine how do they expect Israel to respond?

It's the innocent civilians on both sides who I feel for. It's wrong for Israel to cut off supplies/water etc to Gaza but I'm sorry the word genocide is too freely used these days. What happened to the Jews was genocide, what happened in Rwanda and Cambodia was genocide this unfortunately is war instigated by Hamas.

jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide

www.democracynow.org/2023/10/16/raz_segal_textbook_case_of_genocide

[pirate]

[pirate]

This is what the Palestinians have been experiencing for years. Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari, a spokesman for the Israeli military, said that “the emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy.” The 'Dahiya Doctrine' is a policy developed during the 2006 invasion of Lebanon and soon applied with ferocity to Gaza. A 2009 UN Fact-Finding Mission on Gaza 2009 says 𝗗𝗮𝗵𝗶𝘆𝗮 𝗗𝗼𝗰𝘁𝗿𝗶𝗻𝗲 involves "the application of disproportionate force & the causing of great damage & destruction to civilian property & infrastructure, & suffering to civilian populations". Norman Finkelstein in his book 'Gaza: An Inquest Into Its Martyrdom' also talks about Dahiya Doctrine.

imeu.org/article/the-dahiya-doctrine-and-israels-use-of-disproportionate-force

2009 UN Fact-Finding 



Now...

[pirate]

Philippe Lazzarini, head of UNRWA, the UN agency supporting Palestinian refugees:
“For the past eight days, not a single drop of water, not a single grain of wheat, or a liter of fuel has been allowed to enter Gaza. “We are witnessing an unprecedented humanitarian disaster.”

[gashead79]

pirate. Seriously chap, have you got some obsession with drilling into the topic of the day? It's not healthy you know!
These websites will channel you to content and you'll have a feast of material to drown yourself in.
Take it steady man.

[Gassy]

Oct 16, 2023 20:53:22 GMT popuppirate said:

Oct 16, 2023 20:42:08 GMT Gassy said:

Does anyone actually expect Britain to admit that an ally is committing war crimes?

After the history of the British Empire? 🤣

There's nothing particularly funny about it. The action and rhetoric from our government is appalling

I think you misunderstand. I think it’s funny that people expect our government to actually admit an ally committed war crimes.

Britain has committed how many in its history? Or do they not count because we did it and the British Empire was “great”?

[popuppirate]

Oct 17, 2023 6:32:47 GMT Gassy said:

Oct 16, 2023 20:53:22 GMT popuppirate said:

There's nothing particularly funny about it. The action and rhetoric from our government is appalling

I think you misunderstand. I think it’s funny that people expect our government to actually admit an ally committed war crimes.

Britain has committed how many in its history? Or do they not count because we did it and the British Empire was “great”?

I don't misunderstand, I just think a laughing emoji is inappropriate given the circumstances. And yes, I fully expect our government (and that of other countries including Germany) to recognise and call out war crimes for what they are

[francegas]

Pirate I'm not reading that lot. You could have replied to my question to you in just a few lines.

[Gassy]

Oct 17, 2023 7:04:45 GMT popuppirate said:

Oct 17, 2023 6:32:47 GMT Gassy said:

I think you misunderstand. I think it’s funny that people expect our government to actually admit an ally committed war crimes.

Britain has committed how many in its history? Or do they not count because we did it and the British Empire was “great”?

I don't misunderstand, I just think a laughing emoji is inappropriate given the circumstances. And yes, I fully expect our government (and that of other countries including Germany) to recognise and call out war crimes for what they are

So my thinking your naivety about the British government is funny is disrespectful to Gaza?

It isn’t going to happen and anyone who expects that it will is out of their minds. Should we morally do it? Yes. Will we? No.

[stuart1974]

Oct 17, 2023 7:34:43 GMT Gassy said:

Oct 17, 2023 7:04:45 GMT popuppirate said:

I don't misunderstand, I just think a laughing emoji is inappropriate given the circumstances. And yes, I fully expect our government (and that of other countries including Germany) to recognise and call out war crimes for what they are

So my thinking your naivety about the British government is funny is disrespectful to Gaza?

It isn’t going to happen and anyone who expects that it will is out of their minds. Should we morally do it? Yes. Will we? No.

Hard to see the UK government, or indeed any Western government, overtly calling out another for war crimes. Or at least, government instructed. It will he either (a) concerned talks behind the scenes/diplomacy or (b) localised or isolated examples caused by rogue units.

Reading between the lines, it definitely seems to me we (and I include the US and others) are seriously concerned Israel are in danger of 'overstepping the mark.'

[stuart1974]

Oct 17, 2023 7:04:59 GMT francegas said:

Pirate I'm not reading that lot. You could have replied to my question to you in just a few lines.

Did anyone respond to your question about what should Israel have done?

I find it interesting that despite what Hamas has done, the 'baddy' in this is Israel.

[Gassy]

Oct 17, 2023 7:58:16 GMT stuart1974 said:

Oct 17, 2023 7:34:43 GMT Gassy said:

So my thinking your naivety about the British government is funny is disrespectful to Gaza?

It isn’t going to happen and anyone who expects that it will is out of their minds. Should we morally do it? Yes. Will we? No.

Hard to see the UK government, or indeed any Western government, overtly calling out another for war crimes. Or at least, government instructed. It will he either (a) concerned talks behind the scenes/diplomacy or (b) localised or isolated examples caused by rogue units.

Reading between the lines, it definitely seems to me we (and I include the US and others) are seriously concerned Israel are in danger of 'overstepping the mark.'

Completely agree

[popuppirate]

Oct 17, 2023 7:34:43 GMT Gassy said:

Oct 17, 2023 7:04:45 GMT popuppirate said:

I don't misunderstand, I just think a laughing emoji is inappropriate given the circumstances. And yes, I fully expect our government (and that of other countries including Germany) to recognise and call out war crimes for what they are

So my thinking your naivety about the British government is funny is disrespectful to Gaza?

It isn’t going to happen and anyone who expects that it will is out of their minds. Should we morally do it? Yes. Will we? No.

There's nothing 'out of your mind' expecting the government to act morally in such grave circumstances. It's because it's not demanded that they have no need to. It may be idealistic, perhaps naive, but just accepting it without protest isn't for me

[Gassy]

Oct 17, 2023 8:25:55 GMT popuppirate said:

Oct 17, 2023 7:34:43 GMT Gassy said:

So my thinking your naivety about the British government is funny is disrespectful to Gaza?

It isn’t going to happen and anyone who expects that it will is out of their minds. Should we morally do it? Yes. Will we? No.

There's nothing 'out of your mind' expecting the government to act morally in such grave circumstances. It's because it's not demanded that they have no need to. It may be idealistic, perhaps naive, but just accepting it without protest isn't for me

That’s a fair point, although it doesn’t have much to do with my finding an opinion amusing.

Out of interest, how do you protest it? (That’s a genuine question, not a dig)

[francegas]

Oct 17, 2023 8:01:54 GMT stuart1974 said:

Oct 17, 2023 7:04:59 GMT francegas said:

Pirate I'm not reading that lot. You could have replied to my question to you in just a few lines.

Did anyone respond to your question about what should Israel have done?

I find it interesting that despite what Hamas has done, the 'baddy' in this is Israel.

No they haven't replied.

Totally agree with your last sentence.

Read a report this morning where forensic scientists in Israel are struggling to identify 297 charred bodies. So much so that when a scan was undertaken on one they established it was two bodies fused together an adult and child who hugged each other when facing their fate by Hamas.

[popuppirate]

Oct 17, 2023 8:29:23 GMT Gassy said:

Oct 17, 2023 8:25:55 GMT popuppirate said:

There's nothing 'out of your mind' expecting the government to act morally in such grave circumstances. It's because it's not demanded that they have no need to. It may be idealistic, perhaps naive, but just accepting it without protest isn't for me

That’s a fair point, although it doesn’t have much to do with my finding an opinion amusing.

Out of interest, how do you protest it? (That’s a genuine question, not a dig)

Attend a Pro-Palestinian march ? I haven't, and not sure I would either if I'm honest. Raise awareness maybe, call out bu11sh1t if you hear it, write to your MP. I'd rather do something than laugh at idealist opinions on something so sensitive, but I understand the point that it's probably so futile it's almost laughable. That in itself demonstrates what a sad state the world is in

[oldie]

Oct 17, 2023 8:25:55 GMT popuppirate said:

Oct 17, 2023 7:34:43 GMT Gassy said:

So my thinking your naivety about the British government is funny is disrespectful to Gaza?

It isn’t going to happen and anyone who expects that it will is out of their minds. Should we morally do it? Yes. Will we? No.

There's nothing 'out of your mind' expecting the government to act morally in such grave circumstances. It's because it's not demanded that they have no need to. It may be idealistic, perhaps naive, but just accepting it without protest isn't for me

You are not alone.
Expect a torrent of abuse for expressing such a view point.

[stuart1974]

Oct 17, 2023 8:16:17 GMT Gassy said:

Oct 17, 2023 7:58:16 GMT stuart1974 said:

Hard to see the UK government, or indeed any Western government, overtly calling out another for war crimes. Or at least, government instructed. It will he either (a) concerned talks behind the scenes/diplomacy or (b) localised or isolated examples caused by rogue units.

Reading between the lines, it definitely seems to me we (and I include the US and others) are seriously concerned Israel are in danger of 'overstepping the mark.'

Completely agree

I see Biden is on his way to Israel. This isn't something done at no notice unless he and the State Department are worried, probably trying to slow the Israeli response and cool things down.

The despatch of two carriers and other assets will be a show of force to the wider region, most notably Iran and Hezbollah. I read the other day that the Lebanese Army 'suddenly' found an arms cache.

[Gassy]

Oct 17, 2023 8:44:06 GMT oldie said:

Oct 17, 2023 8:25:55 GMT popuppirate said:

There's nothing 'out of your mind' expecting the government to act morally in such grave circumstances. It's because it's not demanded that they have no need to. It may be idealistic, perhaps naive, but just accepting it without protest isn't for me

You are not alone.
Expect a torrent of abuse for expressing such a view point.

From who or where, Oldie? Be specific and back up your views why you’d expect that?