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Post by supergas on Nov 16, 2023 9:28:52 GMT
I think maybe you don't understand what any UK Foreign Secretary spends most of their time doing....he won't be meeting Russia nor trying to broker any kind of peace deal - as UK Foreign Secretary he will be making sure all of our allies and other friendly countries are all on the same page supporting Ukraine and against Russia. He will be making sure as many countries as possible are placing as many sanctions as practical on Russia to try to force them to come and start negotiating peace. Same with Israel/Hamas/Hezbollah. Whilst diplomacy there is currently much more active, again no one is expecting him to broker a ceasefire - but he knows lots of the people involved and has relationships with other leaders in the area - he will walk into a room and people will know who he is and will listen to what he says because of who he is and what he has done... ...I don't understand the argument that it's about UK politics - the Conservatives will lose the next election by 100+ seats no matter what they do in the next 12 months - and anything Cameron does inside the party right now will continue to widen splits between the different factions - he knows that, Sunak knows that and most other people in the party know that. I stand by my initial claim, the only reason he would want to come back and the only reason Sunak would want him back is to be a good Foreign Secretary for 6-12 months.... Just because you say it is so, does not make it so. You provided no references to justify those statements. But this did make me laugh (sorry) "I think maybe you don't understand what any UK Foreign Secretary spends most of their time doing....he won't be meeting Russia nor trying to broker any kind of peace deal - as UK Foreign Secretary he will be making sure all of our allies and other friendly countries are all on the same page supporting Ukraine and against Russia. He will be making sure as many countries as possible are placing as many sanctions as practical on Russia to try to force them to come and start negotiating peace." How exactly does our Foreign Secretary MAKE SURE ALLIES AND COUNTRIES ARE ON THE SAME PAGE"? This typical overblown nationalist bs is rampant in the Tory Party. As for making sure sanctions are placed and enforced the UK has probably the weakest moral case of all for arguing that, London being the world's largest laundromat for dirty money, ever. Now, layer on top of that an incompetent government, one that just a year ago unravelled the Bond Markets, one who inflicted the Buffoon Johnson on the European stage (the Americans just laughed at us). Now Cameron. Another clown. Sunak so desperate he has to appoint circus acts on the basis (as you super contend) that they are "known". Really. ...so I have to start by explaining to you how international diplomacy works...? |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 16, 2023 9:48:18 GMT
Just because you say it is so, does not make it so. You provided no references to justify those statements. But this did make me laugh (sorry) "I think maybe you don't understand what any UK Foreign Secretary spends most of their time doing....he won't be meeting Russia nor trying to broker any kind of peace deal - as UK Foreign Secretary he will be making sure all of our allies and other friendly countries are all on the same page supporting Ukraine and against Russia. He will be making sure as many countries as possible are placing as many sanctions as practical on Russia to try to force them to come and start negotiating peace." How exactly does our Foreign Secretary MAKE SURE ALLIES AND COUNTRIES ARE ON THE SAME PAGE"? This typical overblown nationalist bs is rampant in the Tory Party. As for making sure sanctions are placed and enforced the UK has probably the weakest moral case of all for arguing that, London being the world's largest laundromat for dirty money, ever. Now, layer on top of that an incompetent government, one that just a year ago unravelled the Bond Markets, one who inflicted the Buffoon Johnson on the European stage (the Americans just laughed at us). Now Cameron. Another clown. Sunak so desperate he has to appoint circus acts on the basis (as you super contend) that they are "known". Really. ...so I have to start by explaining to you how international diplomacy works...? Everybody bow down to the great oracle on all subjects 🙄 |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 16, 2023 10:02:01 GMT
...so I have to start by explaining to you how international diplomacy works...? Everybody bow down to the great oracle on all subjects 🙄 Thank you, but there really is no need. 😘 |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 16, 2023 10:03:11 GMT
Everybody bow down to the great oracle on all subjects 🙄 Thank you, but there really is no need. 😘 I was on about Baggins 🙄 |
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Post by supergas on Nov 16, 2023 10:07:28 GMT
...so I have to start by explaining to you how international diplomacy works...? Everybody bow down to the great oracle on all subjects 🙄 ...I genuinely thought people who post about this kind of stuff all the time would have some kind of understanding about how it actually works in the real world.... |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 16, 2023 10:07:31 GMT
Thank you, but there really is no need. 😘 I was on about Baggins 🙄 That's a relief, I'd hate to disappoint you when I eventually find a topic I'm not sure about. 😃 |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 16, 2023 10:35:01 GMT
I was on about Baggins 🙄 That's a relief, I'd hate to disappoint you when I eventually find a topic I'm not sure about. 😃 Brexit ? 🙄 |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 16, 2023 10:38:16 GMT
That's a relief, I'd hate to disappoint you when I eventually find a topic I'm not sure about. 😃 Brexit ? 🙄 Oops , that was meant for super . The bloke that thinks Brexit is a good idea 😂😂😂😂 |
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Post by supergas on Nov 16, 2023 10:46:54 GMT
Oops , that was meant for super . The bloke that thinks Brexit is a good idea 😂😂😂😂 ...I genuinely thought people who post on a forum all the time would have some kind of understanding about how to post on a forum....  |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 16, 2023 10:52:45 GMT
Oops , that was meant for super . The bloke that thinks Brexit is a good idea 😂😂😂😂 ...I genuinely thought people who post on a forum all the time would have some kind of understanding about how to post on a forum.... Happy to admit I’m far from perfect. You should try it . |
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Post by supergas on Nov 16, 2023 11:03:18 GMT
...I genuinely thought people who post on a forum all the time would have some kind of understanding about how to post on a forum.... Happy to admit I’m far from perfect. You should try it . ...always happy to admit when I'm wrong. It does happen a lot. If I have posted anything that's wrong let's thrash out the details, otherwise this is a distraction  |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 16, 2023 11:04:16 GMT
Happy to admit I’m far from perfect. You should try it . ...always happy to admit when I'm wrong. It does happen a lot. If I have posted anything that's wrong let's thrash out the details, otherwise this is a distraction  Already told you . Brexit . You are most definitely wrong. |
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Post by supergas on Nov 16, 2023 11:22:58 GMT
...always happy to admit when I'm wrong. It does happen a lot. If I have posted anything that's wrong let's thrash out the details, otherwise this is a distraction Already told you . Brexit . You are most definitely wrong. Did I say Brexit would work from day one? Unlikely, even six years ago I was telling people it would benefit the UK in the medium to long term - i.e. ten plus years - we left in 2020.... |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 16, 2023 11:36:30 GMT
Already told you . Brexit . You are most definitely wrong. Did I say Brexit would work from day one? Unlikely, even six years ago I was telling people it would benefit the UK in the medium to long term - i.e. ten plus years - we left in 2020.... Oh gawd ….. you’re really reaching for that lame one 😂😂😂 Thanks , that was fun 🙄 |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 16, 2023 11:38:35 GMT
Did I say Brexit would work from day one? Unlikely, even six years ago I was telling people it would benefit the UK in the medium to long term - i.e. ten plus years - we left in 2020.... Oh gawd ….. you’re really reaching for that lame one 😂😂😂 Thanks , that was fun 🙄 Almost as bad as the Covid vaccine is going to give you *whatever* side effects in how ever many yrs ahead . That way you can never be called out . |
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Post by oldie on Nov 16, 2023 14:09:55 GMT
Just because you say it is so, does not make it so. You provided no references to justify those statements. But this did make me laugh (sorry) "I think maybe you don't understand what any UK Foreign Secretary spends most of their time doing....he won't be meeting Russia nor trying to broker any kind of peace deal - as UK Foreign Secretary he will be making sure all of our allies and other friendly countries are all on the same page supporting Ukraine and against Russia. He will be making sure as many countries as possible are placing as many sanctions as practical on Russia to try to force them to come and start negotiating peace." How exactly does our Foreign Secretary MAKE SURE ALLIES AND COUNTRIES ARE ON THE SAME PAGE"? This typical overblown nationalist bs is rampant in the Tory Party. As for making sure sanctions are placed and enforced the UK has probably the weakest moral case of all for arguing that, London being the world's largest laundromat for dirty money, ever. Now, layer on top of that an incompetent government, one that just a year ago unravelled the Bond Markets, one who inflicted the Buffoon Johnson on the European stage (the Americans just laughed at us). Now Cameron. Another clown. Sunak so desperate he has to appoint circus acts on the basis (as you super contend) that they are "known". Really. ...so I have to start by explaining to you how international diplomacy works...? Give it a go...I am intrigued as to how you think it does. (Others may find your presumptions tedious, to whom I apologise for encouraging you). |
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Post by supergas on Nov 17, 2023 10:44:55 GMT
Give it a go...I am intrigued as to how you think it does. (Others may find your presumptions tedious, to whom I apologise for encouraging you). Worth putting this in context of the points I was making otherwise it's a very large topic... Your claims were mostly around Sunak appointing Cameron to appeal to centrist-Conservative MPs and voters. That's pointless because at most there is 14 months to the General Election which Labour will win with a majority somewhere between 100 and 400 seats. Whilst there are a lot of people who disagree with Sunak on a lot of things, he's not a complete idiot - he knows he will lose the election and he knows bring Cameron in risks dividing the party again in yet another way... ....so why would Sunak want Cameron in that role and why would Cameron want to take it? Let's deal with Cameron first. It can't be political aspiration - by taking a seat in the Lords there is no easy route back into mainstream politics other than as a cabinet minister, and after the next election it will be 5-10 years before the Conservatives form another Cabinet. It also can't be money, this is clearly a pay-cut from what he's currently doing. So what reasons are left for Cameron to take the job? The cynic (no offence) will probably claim it's about a short-term paycut for a longer-term gain, but I genuinely think it's about a crucial 6-12 months in international politics - because there is also no better reason that I can see for Sunak to appoint him. It actually risks highlighting the divisions inside the Conservative Party (Johnson won the 2019 election with a landslide by appealing to a completely different type of voter to Cameron/Sunak - the exact type of voter Starmer is also targeting and will almost certainly win...) Therefore the only reason I can see to appoint Cameron as UK Foreign Secretary is to get things done. International diplomacy (see I got here eventually) is all about talking to people and getting them to agree to what you want them to agree to. We all agree we want to support Ukraine and stop Russian aggression. We all agree we want both sides in the Israel/Hamas conflict to stop fighting and start talking. There are plenty of MPs who would do a good job running the Foreign Office - but Cameron knows people (both politicians and civil servants) around the world - and so phone calls are taken, meetings are organised and decisions are made quicker and easier because of his contacts and his experience. Decisions are made in phone calls and meetings that actually happen and with Cameron those calls and meetings are more likely to be taken and more likely to result in a positive outcome.... |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 17, 2023 12:01:35 GMT
Cameron came back for another few months in the limelight and for vanity reasons .
Sunak got him back to appeal to the blue wall voters as he knows he’s pretty much lost the red wall . It’s to sure up as many votes as possible to prevent electoral wipeout.
It won’t work .
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Post by supergas on Nov 17, 2023 12:21:21 GMT
Cameron came back for another few months in the limelight and for vanity reasons . Sunak got him back to appeal to the blue wall voters as he knows he’s pretty much lost the red wall . It’s to sure up as many votes as possible to prevent electoral wipeout. It won’t work . Obviously it won't work and I explained why neither of them would have done it without having a better reason.... |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 17, 2023 15:41:29 GMT
Cameron came back for another few months in the limelight and for vanity reasons . Sunak got him back to appeal to the blue wall voters as he knows he’s pretty much lost the red wall . It’s to sure up as many votes as possible to prevent electoral wipeout. It won’t work . Obviously it won't work and I explained why neither of them would have done it without having a better reason.... So if Cameron is going to get things done (😂) , why was he second choice after William Hague turned Sunak down ? It is just another desperate move by a leader who’s all over the shop and a Tory party in turmoil. |
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