yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Oct 14, 2023 8:59:08 GMT
Technically it's bicameral, not unitary. 😁 ...blame google, I just copied and pasted it Do your own research 🙄
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 14, 2023 9:22:46 GMT
Technically it's bicameral, not unitary. 😁 ...blame google, I just copied and pasted it I don't need Google. 😇 (Well, not always. 😉)
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Post by supergas on Oct 14, 2023 9:31:25 GMT
So biggest political thing here in Australia at the moment is the Voice Referendum.
Looks like the voters will give it a resounding 'No' at todays referendum, for anyone not following voters were being asked to enshrine an Indigenous advisory body in the constitution that recognises Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people as the nation’s First Peoples.
The longer reasoning as to why the vote will be 'No' is a lot more complex - firstly it's an incomplete policy being taken to a referendum with a badly-worded question.
One question, two outcomes and it's not clear how either will actually happen. Already seeing lots of people saying the wider-Australian public are racist/protectionist without understanding how badly this referendum has been handled...
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Post by oldie on Oct 14, 2023 9:37:08 GMT
So biggest political thing here in Australia at the moment is the Voice Referendum. Looks like the voters will give it a resounding 'No' at todays referendum, for anyone not following voters were being asked to enshrine an Indigenous advisory body in the constitution that recognises Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people as the nation’s First Peoples. The longer reasoning as to why the vote will be 'No' is a lot more complex - firstly it's an incomplete policy being taken to a referendum with a badly-worded question. One question, two outcomes and it's not clear how either will actually happen. Already seeing lots of people saying the wider-Australian public are racist/protectionist without understanding how badly this referendum has been handled... What's the worse thing that would happen if Australians voted yes?
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Oct 14, 2023 9:42:02 GMT
So biggest political thing here in Australia at the moment is the Voice Referendum. Looks like the voters will give it a resounding 'No' at todays referendum, for anyone not following voters were being asked to enshrine an Indigenous advisory body in the constitution that recognises Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people as the nation’s First Peoples. The longer reasoning as to why the vote will be 'No' is a lot more complex - firstly it's an incomplete policy being taken to a referendum with a badly-worded question. One question, two outcomes and it's not clear how either will actually happen. Already seeing lots of people saying the wider-Australian public are racist/protectionist without understanding how badly this referendum has been handled... Heard a little piece on the radio about it a few weeks ago. They also said it hadn’t been worded very well .
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Post by supergas on Oct 14, 2023 10:44:55 GMT
So biggest political thing here in Australia at the moment is the Voice Referendum. Looks like the voters will give it a resounding 'No' at todays referendum, for anyone not following voters were being asked to enshrine an Indigenous advisory body in the constitution that recognises Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people as the nation’s First Peoples. The longer reasoning as to why the vote will be 'No' is a lot more complex - firstly it's an incomplete policy being taken to a referendum with a badly-worded question. One question, two outcomes and it's not clear how either will actually happen. Already seeing lots of people saying the wider-Australian public are racist/protectionist without understanding how badly this referendum has been handled... What's the worse thing that would happen if Australians voted yes? That's a good question - and because the question is so vague some of this is guesswork (not mine, experts in the media in recent weeks)... Firstly the numbers and some context - less that 4% of the Australian population is Aboriginal/Torres Strait Islander and they are all eligible to vote in local and national elections - in fact voting in Australia is compulsory... A yes vote at the referendum would have created a government (taxpayer) funded lobby-group that the government couldn't ignore. This group would have a say over every decision the government made (what level of influence is unclear, one of the key problems with the question) but the PM made it clear it would cover all laws, not just those directly affecting Indigenous people. Most people don't have an issue with constitutional recognition of the first people of Australia - it was the power (and eventually the make-up) of the advisory/lobby group that was the biggest issue - the PM/government already have indigenous advisory groups and their influence is already (in relative terms) more influential than the number of people they represent...
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Post by francegas on Oct 14, 2023 10:45:49 GMT
...blame google, I just copied and pasted it I don't need Google. 😇 (Well, not always. 😉) I don't need Google. My wife knows everything. Or at least that's what she tells me. 😁😁
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Post by supergas on Oct 14, 2023 10:48:46 GMT
Heard a little piece on the radio about it a few weeks ago. They also said it hadn’t been worded very well . I have read this so many times and still don't know why they didn't split it into two parts - and that's even before we get to how awkwardly worded it is, plus the fact that you have to write yes or no - but if you tick that will be counted as a yes whilst if you cross that will not be counted as a no....
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 14, 2023 12:21:16 GMT
I don't need Google. 😇 (Well, not always. 😉) I don't need Google. My wife knows everything. Or at least that's what she tells me. 😁😁 Baggins still uses Ask Jeeves, not the old search engine but his butler.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Oct 14, 2023 12:29:43 GMT
Heard a little piece on the radio about it a few weeks ago. They also said it hadn’t been worded very well . I have read this so many times and still don't know why they didn't split it into two parts - and that's even before we get to how awkwardly worded it is, plus the fact that you have to write yes or no - but if you tick that will be counted as a yes whilst if you cross that will not be counted as a no.... I guess it’s a hard sell asking the 96% to vote for the 4% getting enhanced rights ?
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Post by supergas on Oct 14, 2023 13:58:52 GMT
I have read this so many times and still don't know why they didn't split it into two parts - and that's even before we get to how awkwardly worded it is, plus the fact that you have to write yes or no - but if you tick that will be counted as a yes whilst if you cross that will not be counted as a no.... I guess it’s a hard sell asking the 96% to vote for the 4% getting enhanced rights ? The problem is what rights were proposed? You've read the question, what do you think it actually means?
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Oct 14, 2023 15:00:11 GMT
I guess it’s a hard sell asking the 96% to vote for the 4% getting enhanced rights ? The problem is what rights were proposed? You've read the question, what do you think it actually means? Obvs you’ll be more qualified than me to answer your own question as a politics need of that part of the world. edit : nerd not need !
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Post by oldie on Oct 14, 2023 17:37:37 GMT
What's the worse thing that would happen if Australians voted yes? That's a good question - and because the question is so vague some of this is guesswork (not mine, experts in the media in recent weeks)... Firstly the numbers and some context - less that 4% of the Australian population is Aboriginal/Torres Strait Islander and they are all eligible to vote in local and national elections - in fact voting in Australia is compulsory... A yes vote at the referendum would have created a government (taxpayer) funded lobby-group that the government couldn't ignore. This group would have a say over every decision the government made (what level of influence is unclear, one of the key problems with the question) but the PM made it clear it would cover all laws, not just those directly affecting Indigenous people. Most people don't have an issue with constitutional recognition of the first people of Australia - it was the power (and eventually the make-up) of the advisory/lobby group that was the biggest issue - the PM/government already have indigenous advisory groups and their influence is already (in relative terms) more influential than the number of people they represent... Still none the wiser. What is the downside of voting yes?
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 14, 2023 17:42:00 GMT
That's a good question - and because the question is so vague some of this is guesswork (not mine, experts in the media in recent weeks)... Firstly the numbers and some context - less that 4% of the Australian population is Aboriginal/Torres Strait Islander and they are all eligible to vote in local and national elections - in fact voting in Australia is compulsory... A yes vote at the referendum would have created a government (taxpayer) funded lobby-group that the government couldn't ignore. This group would have a say over every decision the government made (what level of influence is unclear, one of the key problems with the question) but the PM made it clear it would cover all laws, not just those directly affecting Indigenous people. Most people don't have an issue with constitutional recognition of the first people of Australia - it was the power (and eventually the make-up) of the advisory/lobby group that was the biggest issue - the PM/government already have indigenous advisory groups and their influence is already (in relative terms) more influential than the number of people they represent... Still none the wiser. What is the downside of voting yes? Giving carte blanche to politicians based on a vague notion. How bad could it be? Sorry, wrong thread. 😉
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Post by oldie on Oct 14, 2023 19:20:59 GMT
Still none the wiser. What is the downside of voting yes? Giving carte blanche to politicians based on a vague notion. How bad could it be? Sorry, wrong thread. 😉 😂😂 Ha ha. Maybe GulfofAden could enlighten us.
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Post by supergas on Oct 15, 2023 9:57:29 GMT
Still none the wiser. What is the downside of voting yes? Giving carte blanche to politicians based on a vague notion. How bad could it be? Sorry, wrong thread. 😉 Well aside from the actual issue being voted on, there are a lot of parallels to a recent referendum in terms of the surrounding politics - a government who was recently elected on a manifesto saying there would be a referendum on an important issue that divides the country... Still none the wiser. What is the downside of voting yes? ...an unelected advisory body representing less than 1 in 20 of the population having a say over every law passed by any government on any topic... If a perfect world there would be no downside to this, but in the real world we all know this might well become a power that's easily abused...and that's before we even get to the elephant in the room - there is a large chunk of the aboriginal community that doesn't care about creating laws because they are busy breaking them repeatedly. Trouble is that's a tricky argument to make in a national politicial referendum, but I suspect it played a part in a lot of people's decisions....
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Post by supergas on Oct 15, 2023 9:59:00 GMT
The problem is what rights were proposed? You've read the question, what do you think it actually means? Obvs you’ll be more qualified than me to answer your own question as a politics need of that part of the world. edit : nerd not need ! I was just curious to ask someone who thinks and talks about politics a lot what they thought of the question - here in Aus we've had it debated back and forth a lot over the last 9-12 months so a fresh perspective would have been interesting...
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Post by oldie on Oct 15, 2023 10:53:49 GMT
Giving carte blanche to politicians based on a vague notion. How bad could it be? Sorry, wrong thread. 😉 Well aside from the actual issue being voted on, there are a lot of parallels to a recent referendum in terms of the surrounding politics - a government who was recently elected on a manifesto saying there would be a referendum on an important issue that divides the country... Still none the wiser. What is the downside of voting yes? ...an unelected advisory body representing less than 1 in 20 of the population having a say over every law passed by any government on any topic... If a perfect world there would be no downside to this, but in the real world we all know this might well become a power that's easily abused...and that's before we even get to the elephant in the room - there is a large chunk of the aboriginal community that doesn't care about creating laws because they are busy breaking them repeatedly. Trouble is that's a tricky argument to make in a national politicial referendum, but I suspect it played a part in a lot of people's decisions.... "there is a large chunk of the aboriginal community that doesn't care about creating laws because they are busy breaking them repeatedly." Why do you think that is?
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 16, 2023 13:28:27 GMT
SNP conference, already rowing back on whether the next GE will be a defacto referendum.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 16, 2023 13:30:56 GMT
Peter Boner, hmm, sorry, Bone denies it.
"A Conservative MP is facing a six-week suspension from the House of Commons over allegations of bullying and sexual misconduct against a staff member.
A report by parliament's Independent Expert Panel (IEP) found that Peter Bone "trapped" a member of staff in a room where he exposed himself - in what the panel said was a "deliberate and conscious abuse of power".
Mr Bone, the MP for Wellingborough, "committed many varied acts of bullying and one act of sexual misconduct" against a member of his staff in 2012 and 2013, the panel said.
It recommended that he be suspended from the House of Commons for six weeks - paving the way for another potential by-election and headache for Rishi Sunak.
In a statement, Mr Bone, 70, dismissed the IEP report as false and untrue.
"As I have maintained throughout these proceedings, none of the misconduct allegations against me ever took place," he said.
"They are false and untrue claims. They are without foundation." "
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