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World Cup
Nov 24, 2022 18:12:40 GMT
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Post by fintanstack on Nov 24, 2022 18:12:40 GMT
Charity is not always the solution and sometimes people do need to be forced to do the right thing otherwise why have government agencies and laws. I accept I am open to criticism here and you will no doubt provide examples, but Charity does nothing more than show the failing of government and society. Help the Aged should not exist. Health, social care, heating, food and a safe place to live for the elderly should be provided as standard no? Charity is not always the solution and sometimes people do need to be forced to do the right thing Who defines what “the right thing is”? Is it not possibly that the right thing for some is not the right thing as for others? If it’s “the majority”, does this make it “the right thing” or just the thing most people want, and does that make it morally right? Or just mob rule? otherwise why have government agencies and laws Laws are required to defend individual and property rights. As for agencies, I agree, why have government agencies? The vast majority of them are terribly run. . I accept I am open to criticism here and you will no doubt provide examples, but Charity does nothing more than show the failing of government and society. Why is obtaining funds for helping people better under threat of violence better than voluntary donations? Do you actually think it’s possible to build a society where people want for nothing? What makes you think they can, we’ve been trying really hard for about 10,000 years. Help the Aged should not exist. Health, social care, heating, food and a safe place to live for the elderly should be provided as standard no? Do you have a magic beanstalk or Aladdin’s lamp. If you’re asking me if I want the above in return for paying more tax, no. I’m not a member of a plantation, or a commune. I’m an individual, as are you, and not a worker bee for a hive. I think it’s profoundly immoral to impose high taxes on people to pay for solutions you want, or I want, or anyone else. The fruits of our productive labour should be your own. Freeloading off others is disgusting. Now, giving people the means to earn, like land at cheap rates, and using public money to help educate themselves at low rates, I’m all for that. Providing all of this for free is just the wastrels dream and we should not be creating a society of wastrels. Plus, if you think bunging another £500BN a year down the throat of public services will result in any of the above, and not another absolute mess of chummy jobs and contracts you’re mistaken. If you give this kind of money to people who don’t have a bottom line, the money might as well be built. The fact your company can fail is what keeps organisations trim and honest. [/quote] That is what I thought. |
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Post by eric on Nov 24, 2022 18:27:10 GMT
On the contrary, I raise plenty of money for charity. That’s the correct function to try to help people, rather than forcing people to. It’s not “being kinder to others”. If it were to be “kinder to others” that would encompass all the things we’ve both said. It’s focussing strictly on racism, sexism and homophobia, exclusively. Helping the elderly is some low hanging fruit? How about helping old people who are on their own? I’m not interested in any of your diversions, neither you or oldie, in bringing up other viewpoints because it’s juvenile in group/our group nonsense. We are discussing this issue, not raking up what you can from other posts. You do zoom in like a heat-seeking missile on anything vaguely lefty-liberal though, even if the cause is well meaning and helpful to a majority. Perhaps you're not aware of it and you can't help yourself, or you know exactly what you're doing. Unlike when someone posts something on here that is deemed right of centre - then you have a whole gang of heat seeking missiles zooming in. The battle cry goes up “we’ve got another one lads” and the missiles start getting prepped for action !! |
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World Cup
Nov 24, 2022 18:30:43 GMT
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Post by aghast on Nov 24, 2022 18:30:43 GMT
You do zoom in like a heat-seeking missile on anything vaguely lefty-liberal though, even if the cause is well meaning and helpful to a majority. Perhaps you're not aware of it and you can't help yourself, or you know exactly what you're doing. Unlike when someone posts something on here that is deemed right of centre - then you have a whole gang of heat seeking missiles zooming in. The battle cry goes up “we’ve got another one lads” and the missiles start getting prepped for action !! Yes indeed, but they admit that's what they stand for and do in response. The other chap pretends he doesn't. |
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yattongas
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World Cup
Nov 24, 2022 18:40:24 GMT
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Post by yattongas on Nov 24, 2022 18:40:24 GMT
You do zoom in like a heat-seeking missile on anything vaguely lefty-liberal though, even if the cause is well meaning and helpful to a majority. Perhaps you're not aware of it and you can't help yourself, or you know exactly what you're doing. Unlike when someone posts something on here that is deemed right of centre - then you have a whole gang of heat seeking missiles zooming in. The battle cry goes up “we’ve got another one lads” and the missiles start getting prepped for action !! 🚀 That line was used by me for a racist poster , who was banned in the end for being a …. Racist . Just like the other bloke before who was banned for being a …. Racist . UTG |
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World Cup
Nov 24, 2022 19:00:51 GMT
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Post by fintanstack on Nov 24, 2022 19:00:51 GMT
Unlike when someone posts something on here that is deemed right of centre - then you have a whole gang of heat seeking missiles zooming in. The battle cry goes up “we’ve got another one lads” and the missiles start getting prepped for action !! 🚀 That line was used by me for a racist poster , who was banned in the end for being a …. Racist . Just like the other bloke before who was banned for being a …. Racist . UTG Right of centre = racist. Who would have thought it? |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 24, 2022 19:56:56 GMT
🚀 That line was used by me for a racist poster , who was banned in the end for being a …. Racist . Just like the other bloke before who was banned for being a …. Racist . UTG Right of centre = racist. Who would have thought it? Certainly not all but there’s been a few posters on here in the last couple of yrs . Oldgas being a prime example. |
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Post by trevorgas on Nov 24, 2022 20:54:18 GMT
I curtsy every time she walks in the room . What's Trevorgas's Wife doing in your room? Not a lot🤭🤭 |
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Post by eric on Nov 24, 2022 20:54:47 GMT
🚀 That line was used by me for a racist poster , who was banned in the end for being a …. Racist . Just like the other bloke before who was banned for being a …. Racist . UTG Right of centre = racist. Who would have thought it? Exactly the sort of blinkered, arrogant generalisations that constantly see the left fall short in elections. |
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World Cup
Nov 24, 2022 21:26:59 GMT
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Post by fintanstack on Nov 24, 2022 21:26:59 GMT
Right of centre = racist. Who would have thought it? Exactly the sort of blinkered, arrogant generalisations that constantly see the left fall short in elections. It was a joke. |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 24, 2022 21:32:18 GMT
Exactly the sort of blinkered, arrogant generalisations that constantly see the left fall short in elections. It was a joke. Whoosh |
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World Cup
Nov 24, 2022 23:42:10 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 24, 2022 23:42:10 GMT
The things you list are equally if not more important but much less easily solvable. Treating people fairly and equally regardless of gender, colour or sexual orientation should be a lot easier to fix and yet some how it has not been. I was always taught that you fix multiple problems by tackling the the low hanging fruit. Certainly not by saying "oh, let's not fix that because there are bigger issues" as you appear to advocate. To pass off the idea of being kinder to others as a cult is utter nonsense too. Where I do agree with you is that (The West) British people could and should do much more to solve our own problems before we decide to berate every other world culture. I am not sure if that means direct action, voting habits or simply better education of our children but given some of your posts in other threads I imagine you would not agree with any of these potential solutions either because it is much easier to take snide pot shots from the wings at stupid, woke, liberal, lefty cult members than it is to actually do anything positive. On the contrary, I raise plenty of money for charity. That’s the correct function to try to help people, rather than forcing people to. It’s not “being kinder to others”. If it were to be “kinder to others” that would encompass all the things we’ve both said. It’s focussing strictly on racism, sexism and homophobia, exclusively. Helping the elderly is some low hanging fruit? How about helping old people who are on their own? I’m not interested in any of your diversions, neither you or oldie, in bringing up other viewpoints because it’s juvenile in group/our group nonsense. We are discussing this issue, not raking up what you can from other posts. I've asked before but didn't get a response, did you post before under the user name of Gregory Stevens? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 24, 2022 23:57:11 GMT
You do zoom in like a heat-seeking missile on anything vaguely lefty-liberal though, even if the cause is well meaning and helpful to a majority. Perhaps you're not aware of it and you can't help yourself, or you know exactly what you're doing. Unlike when someone posts something on here that is deemed right of centre - then you have a whole gang of heat seeking missiles zooming in. The battle cry goes up “we’ve got another one lads” and the missiles start getting prepped for action !! Quite a lot of overlap between Left of Centre, Centre and Right of Centre, in fact I would cover all those positions depending on the topic. I suspect what some object to are the more extreme version but have taken it as simply left and right. We've more in common than we realise but in general on social media the adage of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' is all to apparent. The notion of government is to get the balance between lower taxes and public services. The 'more' right want little to no tax while the 'more' left want to tax people, especially the wealthy, and the State provides everything. I've avoided the term 'far left' or 'far right' as that has totally different meanings. One of the problems as I see it is that unity of Labour or the Conservatives is more important than getting consensus, social care being a prime example, leaving us with aspirations of northern European levels of public services and North American levels of tax. It won't work and we continue to struggle until something breaks. Anyway, I'm on holiday at the moment so play nicely lads. 😋 |
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World Cup
Nov 25, 2022 4:33:19 GMT
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Post by gulfofaden on Nov 25, 2022 4:33:19 GMT
On the contrary, I raise plenty of money for charity. That’s the correct function to try to help people, rather than forcing people to. It’s not “being kinder to others”. If it were to be “kinder to others” that would encompass all the things we’ve both said. It’s focussing strictly on racism, sexism and homophobia, exclusively. Helping the elderly is some low hanging fruit? How about helping old people who are on their own? I’m not interested in any of your diversions, neither you or oldie, in bringing up other viewpoints because it’s juvenile in group/our group nonsense. We are discussing this issue, not raking up what you can from other posts. I've asked before but didn't get a response, did you post before under the user name of Gregory Stevens? GOA - “ juvenile in group/our group nonsense. We are discussing this issue, not raking up what you can from other posts.” S74 - “ I've asked before but didn't get a response, did you post before under the user name of Gregory Stevens?” Lol |
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Post by gulfofaden on Nov 25, 2022 4:58:41 GMT
You do zoom in like a heat-seeking missile on anything vaguely lefty-liberal though, even if the cause is well meaning and helpful to a majority. Perhaps you're not aware of it and you can't help yourself, or you know exactly what you're doing. Unlike when someone posts something on here that is deemed right of centre - then you have a whole gang of heat seeking missiles zooming in. The battle cry goes up “we’ve got another one lads” and the missiles start getting prepped for action !! The main difference is that neither I, nor anyone opposing them gets personal. These guys, it will always end up with suppositions I’m a tax exile (gulf of Aden, apparently I’m in Somalia), I’m some other username rebranded….it’s that nasty real politic and sadly they don’t know any better. As I’ve said, it’s in group/our group and has less to do with actual politics and more to do with tribal warfare. I suppose it’s a football forum. Most people come to the right not because they don’t like ideas of free everything, it’s because they have experience of human nature and the immense difficulty in solving those issues. It’s why people generally move right as they age. I totally get where the left come from. First principles - this person needs x so we need to give them x. It’s to be admired in many respects. I don’t think they actually understand the alternative positon: that forcing others to do things is morally reprehensible. That solving a problem often creates another problem. The sugar tax is a great example: kids are overweight. We will tax sugar. Drinks companies now fill ALL versions full of sweeteners. Kids now have one drink, Pepsi, which isn’t full of chemical sweetners. That’s a good example of how simple solutions misfire. I’d rather have my kids drinking sugar than aspartame. Same with everything. We want to pay for social care. Load tax and NI. Now families have less to spend on groceries. “Food bank Britain at breaking point!” The frustrating thing is that I genuinely believe they don’t understand. In the aforementioned example it’s just red mist at “YOU DONT WANT TO PAY FOR SOCIAL CARE!” and the wider implications are just seen as selfishness…. A long diatribe but a lot of our problems are highly complex and this is why the right get knocked, we are more the accountant type and everyone hates the guy who says “have you thoght this through?” In fact, these guys will just kill this guy and waste the harvest!! Of course, in principle, we SHOULD be able to give everyone what they want….real life isn’t like that sadly, and the messenger gets shot. |
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World Cup
Nov 25, 2022 6:05:35 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 25, 2022 6:05:35 GMT
I've asked before but didn't get a response, did you post before under the user name of Gregory Stevens? GOA - “ juvenile in group/our group nonsense. We are discussing this issue, not raking up what you can from other posts.” S74 - “ I've asked before but didn't get a response, did you post before under the user name of Gregory Stevens?” Lol Just a convenient post to raise the question. It's about context and also genuinely interested as there are similarities in your posting styles, political view and your backstories. Surely you aren't concerned about what you've posted before, are you? |
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World Cup
Nov 25, 2022 6:44:43 GMT
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Post by gulfofaden on Nov 25, 2022 6:44:43 GMT
GOA - “ juvenile in group/our group nonsense. We are discussing this issue, not raking up what you can from other posts.” S74 - “ I've asked before but didn't get a response, did you post before under the user name of Gregory Stevens?” Lol Just a convenient post to raise the question. It's about context and also genuinely interested as there are similarities in your posting styles, political view and your backstories. Surely you aren't concerned about what you've posted before, are you? “If you’ve got nothing to hide you’ve got nothing to fear” Creepy AF. Machievelian narcissism. Why not debate the points? Oh, that’s right, you can’t. The fact you are doing this when I’ve called you out on it, shows you don’t get it. You don’t understand why it’s wrong, it’s just all you know. It’s not about the points, it’s about “winning”. I am not debating people like you, have your echo chamber back. |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 25, 2022 8:32:36 GMT
Oh look , he’s throwing a tantrum again .
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World Cup
Nov 25, 2022 8:46:29 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 25, 2022 8:46:29 GMT
Just a convenient post to raise the question. It's about context and also genuinely interested as there are similarities in your posting styles, political view and your backstories. Surely you aren't concerned about what you've posted before, are you? “If you’ve got nothing to hide you’ve got nothing to fear” Creepy AF. Machievelian narcissism. Why not debate the points? Oh, that’s right, you can’t. The fact you are doing this when I’ve called you out on it, shows you don’t get it. You don’t understand why it’s wrong, it’s just all you know. It’s not about the points, it’s about “winning”. I am not debating people like you, have your echo chamber back. Nothing of the sort, just busy life. Not the first time you've refused to debate with me, didn't realise I was such an ogre. After others leaving I must be getting a bit of a reputation on here. 🤔 |
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Post by warehamgas on Nov 25, 2022 11:05:37 GMT
“If you’ve got nothing to hide you’ve got nothing to fear” Creepy AF. Machievelian narcissism. Why not debate the points? Oh, that’s right, you can’t. The fact you are doing this when I’ve called you out on it, shows you don’t get it. You don’t understand why it’s wrong, it’s just all you know. It’s not about the points, it’s about “winning”. I am not debating people like you, have your echo chamber back. Nothing of the sort, just busy life. Not the first time you've refused to debate with me, didn't realise I was such an ogre. After others leaving I must be getting a bit of a reputation on here. 🤔No, you’re no ogre Stuart and anyone who’s read your posts over the years would know that you are more reasoned than many. But goa loves a good old wind-up. 😉 Meanwhile back at the World Cup Wales started well but Iran have come back into it, still 0-0. This is a World Cup thread isn’t it? UTG! |
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World Cup
Nov 25, 2022 11:46:23 GMT
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Post by oldie on Nov 25, 2022 11:46:23 GMT
Nothing of the sort, just busy life. Not the first time you've refused to debate with me, didn't realise I was such an ogre. After others leaving I must be getting a bit of a reputation on here. 🤔No, you’re no ogre Stuart and anyone who’s read your posts over the years would know that you are more reasoned than many. But goa loves a good old wind-up. 😉 Meanwhile back at the World Cup Wales started well but Iran have come back into it, still 0-0. This is a World Cup thread isn’t it? UTG! Loved the fact, if true, that thousands of Iranian fans did not take their seats pre match to avoid their national anthem. |
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