World Cup

[socrates]

Nov 16, 2022 18:05:16 GMT Westy said:

Nov 11, 2022 7:46:45 GMT socrates said:

Serious post.
They have their culture.
Why should they change it for us ?
If gay people are boycotting the World Cup then good on them they’re sticking to what they believe in but I wouldn’t expect a nation to change their culture for the west.
Just as we shouldn’t / wouldn’t for them.

I disagree strongly. I don't think it's unreasonable to wish and expect for women's rights, free elections, press freedom, gay rights for all people, all over the world. And in fact be more sympathetic to the everyday people having their lives affected by this, than it is to have sympathy for the dictator that's been on the throne for 40 years. Especially if they've lost these rights and their culture is based on a warlord taking over and bringing in a 1500 year old set of arbitrary saying written in a book that in itself was written to subjecate people. Things have moved on, it's not a different culture it's oppressive military zealots who rule with fear and that's not really fair on anybody. Imo.

I agree with your points but the west trying to change the culture and ways of a country thousands of miles away with a different religion and culture doesn’t work.
Look at Iraq 2003 for example.
Afghanistan.[l
You could go back to the crusades.
br]These people have their ways and we don’t agree with their ways but we ain’t gonna change it.
That was my point.
We can bang all we like about how medieval we think they are but everytime we try and get involved in a strong political and / or military way it causes bloodshed for millions of people , many of them innocent people.
The west trying to police the world because we think we are in charge and know best just pushes these cultures further away and if you disagree strongly with that then that’s your choice but I’m right and history proves it.

[stuart1974]

Nov 17, 2022 0:25:41 GMT socrates said:

Nov 16, 2022 18:05:16 GMT Westy said:

I disagree strongly. I don't think it's unreasonable to wish and expect for women's rights, free elections, press freedom, gay rights for all people, all over the world. And in fact be more sympathetic to the everyday people having their lives affected by this, than it is to have sympathy for the dictator that's been on the throne for 40 years. Especially if they've lost these rights and their culture is based on a warlord taking over and bringing in a 1500 year old set of arbitrary saying written in a book that in itself was written to subjecate people. Things have moved on, it's not a different culture it's oppressive military zealots who rule with fear and that's not really fair on anybody. Imo.

I agree with your points but the west trying to change the culture and ways of a country thousands of miles away with a different religion and culture doesn’t work.
Look at Iraq 2003 for example.
Afghanistan.[l
You could go back to the crusades.
br]These people have their ways and we don’t agree with their ways but we ain’t gonna change it.
That was my point.
We can bang all we like about how medieval we think they are but everytime we try and get involved in a strong political and / or military way it causes bloodshed for millions of people , many of them innocent people.
The west trying to police the world because we think we are in charge and know best just pushes these cultures further away and if you disagree strongly with that then that’s your choice but I’m right and history proves it.

Should a host nation be selected for the men's World Cup if they wouldn't host a women's World Cup?

[stuart1974]

Getting back to the football:

Brazil emerge with the highest probability of winning. The five-time winners, who are overall favourites to win, have a 16% chance of lifting the trophy according to the model, and as the overall favourites for the tournament, are also the team with the highest probability of reaching the final (25%).

Just behind five-time winners Brazil, it is Argentina who have the second-highest probability of winning this year's World Cup. Lionel Scaloni's side, who are the favourites in Group C, have a 13% chance of going on to scoop the trophy this year.

Rounding out the top five contenders at the 2022 World Cup are France (12%), Spain (9%) and England (9%).

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63489985?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral

[Westy]

Nov 17, 2022 0:25:41 GMT socrates said:

Nov 16, 2022 18:05:16 GMT Westy said:

I disagree strongly. I don't think it's unreasonable to wish and expect for women's rights, free elections, press freedom, gay rights for all people, all over the world. And in fact be more sympathetic to the everyday people having their lives affected by this, than it is to have sympathy for the dictator that's been on the throne for 40 years. Especially if they've lost these rights and their culture is based on a warlord taking over and bringing in a 1500 year old set of arbitrary saying written in a book that in itself was written to subjecate people. Things have moved on, it's not a different culture it's oppressive military zealots who rule with fear and that's not really fair on anybody. Imo.

I agree with your points but the west trying to change the culture and ways of a country thousands of miles away with a different religion and culture doesn’t work.
Look at Iraq 2003 for example.
Afghanistan.[l
You could go back to the crusades.
br]These people have their ways and we don’t agree with their ways but we ain’t gonna change it.
That was my point.
We can bang all we like about how medieval we think they are but everytime we try and get involved in a strong political and / or military way it causes bloodshed for millions of people , many of them innocent people.
The west trying to police the world because we think we are in charge and know best just pushes these cultures further away and if you disagree strongly with that then that’s your choice but I’m right and history proves it.

I do see where you're coming from on a lot of points you make.

But the facts are; it is a medieval culture in a modern world, there are hundreds of thousands of people suffering all across the Middle East & Arab states, and that as a modern secular side of the world, I don't think it's wrong to say we shouldn't be nudging them to look after their people fairly and humanely?

Well and truly, it is about the people being persecuted and oppressed, which turns out to be the whole middle east tbh. And yeah, the war(s) failed, which is why we haven't started anymore after lending a hand in Syria for a little bit. But that doesn't mean we can't still be trying to put social, political and ethical pressure on them - neither does that mean that they are entitled or; or that it can be condoned - for them to stay how they are simply because "it's their culture".

These people need a bit of solidarity and public support in that we know how they live, we know they are suffering, and we're sympathising and supporting any voices within the Arab world that are calling for the same

[Qatar Gas]

Nov 17, 2022 0:56:47 GMT stuart1974 said:

Nov 17, 2022 0:25:41 GMT socrates said:

I agree with your points but the west trying to change the culture and ways of a country thousands of miles away with a different religion and culture doesn’t work.
Look at Iraq 2003 for example.
Afghanistan.[l
You could go back to the crusades.
br]These people have their ways and we don’t agree with their ways but we ain’t gonna change it.
That was my point.
We can bang all we like about how medieval we think they are but everytime we try and get involved in a strong political and / or military way it causes bloodshed for millions of people , many of them innocent people.
The west trying to police the world because we think we are in charge and know best just pushes these cultures further away and if you disagree strongly with that then that’s your choice but I’m right and history proves it.

Should a host nation be selected for the men's World Cup if they wouldn't host a women's World Cup?

But Qatar would hold a women's world cup. Its not Iran, Afghanistan etc. They have a women's team and one of the World Cup stadiums will become the national stadium for the women's team. 

[socrates]

Nov 17, 2022 0:56:47 GMT stuart1974 said:

Nov 17, 2022 0:25:41 GMT socrates said:

I agree with your points but the west trying to change the culture and ways of a country thousands of miles away with a different religion and culture doesn’t work.
Look at Iraq 2003 for example.
Afghanistan.[l
You could go back to the crusades.
br]These people have their ways and we don’t agree with their ways but we ain’t gonna change it.
That was my point.
We can bang all we like about how medieval we think they are but everytime we try and get involved in a strong political and / or military way it causes bloodshed for millions of people , many of them innocent people.
The west trying to police the world because we think we are in charge and know best just pushes these cultures further away and if you disagree strongly with that then that’s your choice but I’m right and history proves it.

Should a host nation be selected for the men's World Cup if they wouldn't host a women's World Cup?

Probably not.
They also shouldn’t be selected if their means of getting it were corrupt.

[baggins]

Nov 17, 2022 8:37:02 GMT socrates said:

Nov 17, 2022 0:56:47 GMT stuart1974 said:

Should a host nation be selected for the men's World Cup if they wouldn't host a women's World Cup?

Probably not.
They also shouldn’t be selected if their means of getting it were corrupt.

IF?

[socrates]

Nov 17, 2022 11:53:55 GMT baggins said:

Nov 17, 2022 8:37:02 GMT socrates said:

Probably not.
They also shouldn’t be selected if their means of getting it were corrupt.

IF?

Yeah if.
In Qatar’s case it’s pretty much concluded that they did.

[baggins]

Nov 17, 2022 12:08:52 GMT socrates said:

Nov 17, 2022 11:53:55 GMT baggins said:

IF?

Yeah if.
In Qatar’s case it’s pretty much concluded that they did.

As did Russia.

[francegas]

Nov 17, 2022 11:53:55 GMT baggins said:

Nov 17, 2022 8:37:02 GMT socrates said:

Probably not.
They also shouldn’t be selected if their means of getting it were corrupt.

IF?

No if Bags. As I said on here the other day watch FIFA Uncovered on Netflix and Socrates would change his reply to "They also shouldn't be selected when their means of getting it was corrupt"

[socrates]

Nov 17, 2022 12:46:44 GMT francegas said:

Nov 17, 2022 11:53:55 GMT baggins said:

IF?

No if Bags. As I said on here the other day watch FIFA Uncovered on Netflix and Socrates would change his reply to "They also shouldn't be selected when their means of getting it was corrupt"

I never said they should have been.
The question I was asked didn’t have Qatar mentioned.
Obviously Qatar should never have been awarded the World Cup but in my opinion for reasons of voting corruption.
Not because homosexuality is illegal or any of their culture differences.
For the record homosexuality was illegal in Britain until the 60s.
Crazy as that now seems.
Also I’ve seen the documentary and it didn’t surprise me at all.
I’ve read books about it to and it’s been obvious for decades that FIFA is riddled with corruption.

[yattongas]

Nov 17, 2022 12:46:44 GMT francegas said:

Nov 17, 2022 11:53:55 GMT baggins said:

IF?

No if Bags. As I said on here the other day watch FIFA Uncovered on Netflix and Socrates would change his reply to "They also shouldn't be selected when their means of getting it was corrupt"

Watching it now francegas , on your recommendation.

[supergas]

Nov 17, 2022 4:57:35 GMT Qatar Gas said:

Nov 17, 2022 0:56:47 GMT stuart1974 said:

Should a host nation be selected for the men's World Cup if they wouldn't host a women's World Cup?

But Qatar would hold a women's world cup. Its not Iran, Afghanistan etc. They have a women's team and one of the World Cup stadiums will become the national stadium for the women's team. 

I had a quick google and might be wrong, but their women's team has only played one match in the last eight years - an exhibition match.

You'd have thought it was the ideal time to build on the competitive games they did play (between 2010 and 2014) in the run up to a home Mens World Cup but obviously not...

...it's a guess but I think they have barely any interest at all in the mens game, let alone the womens game...

[stuart1974]

No beer at the grounds themselves, just designated fan zones.

Except corporate guests, that is.

news.sky.com/story/qatar-world-cup-beer-could-be-banned-from-all-stadiums-12750052

[yattongas]

Nov 18, 2022 12:14:52 GMT stuart1974 said:

No beer at the grounds themselves, just designated fan zones.

Except corporate guests, that is.

news.sky.com/story/qatar-world-cup-beer-could-be-banned-from-all-stadiums-12750052

Weren’t they going to charge £12.50 a pint anyway?
Glad I’ll be sat in my home watching it with a beer in hand and saving thousands of pounds I the process .

[francegas]

I think Budweiser will be demanding money back from FIFA.

[yattongas]

Nov 18, 2022 13:27:46 GMT francegas said:

I think Budweiser will be demanding money back from FIFA.

I want my money back from Budweiser , bought 4 cans once and it’s bloody horrible stuff .

[dudelebowski]

No real change for us, all our bookings at various bars/hotels still stand. Happy hour prices AOTS!
Missing out on an expensive pint at the ground is no biggy, were never allowed to drink inside them anyway.

A real change up on Russia 2018, watching us batter Panama in Nizhny Novgorod absolutely smashed before we’d scored our 5th!

[aghast]

Nov 18, 2022 13:27:46 GMT francegas said:

I think Budweiser will be demanding money back from FIFA.

Attachment Deleted

[stuart1974]

'One love' armbands will not now be worn, it's become a bookable offence.

news.sky.com/story/england-and-wales-decide-not-to-wear-onelove-armband-at-world-cup-after-fifa-threat-12752285