World Cup

[fintanstack]

Fifa will sell themselves for anyone.

[baggins]

Nov 21, 2022 12:02:31 GMT fintanstack said:

Fifa will sell themselves for anyone.

And have done.

[stuart1974]

Did this really happen? Hoping it's just a misunderstanding.

[dudelebowski]

Nov 21, 2022 14:58:29 GMT stuart1974 said:

Did this really happen? Hoping it's just a misunderstanding.

I imagine it was “get off the seat” if anything

[gulfofaden]

Islamophobia V homophobia: who will win in the progressive grievance game.

Regardless of what we want the world to be like, conservative Islamic (or Christian) cultures do not like homosexuality and rainbow flags. Or women, much.

It seems that pride has won this battle in the hearts and minds of the media and the people who source their worldview from journalists.

This crisis is of their own making: We didn’t ask for the knee, and flags, but you pushed it in everyone’s face and made everyone clap along lest they be cast aside as not being a supporter of “THE MESSAGE”

If you insert your dogma where it isn’t asked for or wanted, don’t be surprised when almost half the worlds population, who don’t like your view, kick back.

If you’d just left football to be about football without inserting the cult of progressivisms messaging in it to help educate those stupid working class people, then none of this would have happened

How about making football about football?

To be fair to the Qataris, they haven’t insisted on Islamic armbands and iconography to be front and centre of this event. All they’ve done is prevented OUR politicising. They haven’t forced anyone to incorporate theirs.

On balance I’m intellectually with the west on this - tolerance and equality are GOOD THINGS. Inserting your hobby horse everywhere isn’t, let folks make up their own mind. Give “THE MESSAGE” a rest. It’s only tinpot communists and cults who want to put their badge on everything and cowe everyone into supporting something.

[oldie]

Nov 24, 2022 6:56:03 GMT gulfofaden said:

Islamophobia V homophobia: who will win in the progressive grievance game.

Regardless of what we want the world to be like, conservative Islamic (or Christian) cultures do not like homosexuality and rainbow flags. Or women, much.

It seems that pride has won this battle in the hearts and minds of the media and the people who source their worldview from journalists.

This crisis is of their own making: We didn’t ask for the knee, and flags, but you pushed it in everyone’s face and made everyone clap along lest they be cast aside as not being a supporter of “THE MESSAGE”

If you insert your dogma where it isn’t asked for or wanted, don’t be surprised when almost half the worlds population, who don’t like your view, kick back.

If you’d just left football to be about football without inserting the cult of progressivisms messaging in it to help educate those stupid working class people, then none of this would have happened

How about making football about football?

To be fair to the Qataris, they haven’t insisted on Islamic armbands and iconography to be front and centre of this event. All they’ve done is prevented OUR politicising. They haven’t forced anyone to incorporate theirs.

On balance I’m intellectually with the west on this - tolerance and equality are GOOD THINGS. Inserting your hobby horse everywhere isn’t, let folks make up their own mind. Give “THE MESSAGE” a rest. It’s only tinpot communists and cults who want to put their badge on everything and cowe everyone into supporting something.

Goodness me.
Is that copied and pasted from "Insularity Weekly"?
However it's clear the Iranian men's football team don't agree with you and showed their support for the fight for female equality in Iran. Support that may well have consequences for them personally if and when they return to Iran.

From your monologue this jumped out at me

"If you’d just left football to be about football without inserting the cult of progressivisms messaging in it to help educate those stupid working class people"

Faux culture war at its finest.

[gulfofaden]

Nov 24, 2022 8:07:03 GMT oldie said:

Nov 24, 2022 6:56:03 GMT gulfofaden said:

Islamophobia V homophobia: who will win in the progressive grievance game.

Regardless of what we want the world to be like, conservative Islamic (or Christian) cultures do not like homosexuality and rainbow flags. Or women, much.

It seems that pride has won this battle in the hearts and minds of the media and the people who source their worldview from journalists.

This crisis is of their own making: We didn’t ask for the knee, and flags, but you pushed it in everyone’s face and made everyone clap along lest they be cast aside as not being a supporter of “THE MESSAGE”

If you insert your dogma where it isn’t asked for or wanted, don’t be surprised when almost half the worlds population, who don’t like your view, kick back.

If you’d just left football to be about football without inserting the cult of progressivisms messaging in it to help educate those stupid working class people, then none of this would have happened

How about making football about football?

To be fair to the Qataris, they haven’t insisted on Islamic armbands and iconography to be front and centre of this event. All they’ve done is prevented OUR politicising. They haven’t forced anyone to incorporate theirs.

On balance I’m intellectually with the west on this - tolerance and equality are GOOD THINGS. Inserting your hobby horse everywhere isn’t, let folks make up their own mind. Give “THE MESSAGE” a rest. It’s only tinpot communists and cults who want to put their badge on everything and cowe everyone into supporting something.

Goodness me.
Is that copied and pasted from "Insularity Weekly"?
However it's clear the Iranian men's football team don't agree with you and showed their support for the fight for female equality in Iran. Support that may well have consequences for them personally if and when they return to Iran.

From your monologue this jumped out at me

"If you’d just left football to be about football without inserting the cult of progressivisms messaging in it to help educate those stupid working class people"

Faux culture war at its finest.

Here are some things which you might want to think about:

Child abuse
War
Modern slavery
Gang violence
Poverty

All of which are greater ills than equality, but not a whisper? Why? Why is it relentlessly sexuality and racism?

Why? It’s a cult. If you’re not in the cult, you see the bizzare nature of the the selective outrage. With all the stuff going on in the world, and this is the main event?

Sort out all these things and I’ll happily join you on your quest for equality.

Some of us have different priorities and can view the worlds ills in context. If you want to ride the wave of “the current thing” feel free, to me, it’s a tired old hobby horse which has been playing my entire life, relentlessly and it’s about time other things, of greater magnitude get a bit of attention.

It’s weird, from my point of view. All the horrific things going on, and we make a song and dance about this. We’ve had legal equity for years, most people can’t remember the old world.

As I say, hobby horse. I mean, what more can be done other than control the function of peoples minds to not think unkind things?
There’s a huge, immoral child sex tourism industry in Asia, there’s more kids dying in the U.K. of gang violence in the U.K. each year than have died of racism and homophobia in the last 20 years.

I have literally no idea why people screen all this sh** out and conclude than some aged Christians not approving of homosexuality is the biggest issue.

[oldie]

"Child abuse
War
Modern slavery
Gang violence
Poverty"

🥹
Are you seriously suggesting that those issues are not a concern to those of us who would also seek to highlight other issues? Really?

[gulfofaden]

Nov 24, 2022 8:26:25 GMT oldie said:

"Child abuse
War
Modern slavery
Gang violence
Poverty"

🥹
Are you seriously suggesting that those issues are not a concern to those of us who would also seek to highlight other issues? Really?

So why aren’t we kneeling for this then? Or waving flags?

It’s clearly higher up the pecking order, for you.

You’ve prioritised it at the expense of the others.
Have you thought this through, or just gone with the programme?

[yattongas]

Nov 24, 2022 8:28:17 GMT gulfofaden said:

Nov 24, 2022 8:26:25 GMT oldie said:

"Child abuse
War
Modern slavery
Gang violence
Poverty"

🥹
Are you seriously suggesting that those issues are not a concern to those of us who would also seek to highlight other issues? Really?

So why aren’t we kneeling for this then? Or waving flags?

It’s clearly higher up the pecking order, for you.

You’ve prioritised it at the expense of the others.
Have you thought this through, or just gone with the programme?

I kneel for everything mate , in fact I’ve just bought a pair of knee pads. 🙄✊

[oldie]

Nov 24, 2022 8:28:17 GMT gulfofaden said:

Nov 24, 2022 8:26:25 GMT oldie said:

"Child abuse
War
Modern slavery
Gang violence
Poverty"

🥹
Are you seriously suggesting that those issues are not a concern to those of us who would also seek to highlight other issues? Really?

So why aren’t we kneeling for this then? Or waving flags?

It’s clearly higher up the pecking order, for you.

You’ve prioritised it at the expense of the others.
Have you thought this through, or just gone with the programme?

Hardly
The solutions to those issues you raise within the UK are largely political. Political choices on allocation of resources, political choices on policy.

Voting in flag waving idealogues generally leads to bad outcomes in those areas of concern you raise.
For eg.
Brexit has suppressed our economic potential which directly leads to lower employment opportunities and tax income for the government. Which in itself links to poverty and a shrinking of service provision for child services.

All these issues have been discussed at length in other threads.

I think I am correct in that you supported Brexit (apologies if not) so in effect you voted for the outcomes you highlight and you don't want to talk about suppression in other countries because football is more important.

Didn't you also say that you were moving to a country with lower taxation levels?
Where might that be and what are social policies like there?

[trevorgas]

Nov 24, 2022 8:42:11 GMT yattongas said:

Nov 24, 2022 8:28:17 GMT gulfofaden said:

So why aren’t we kneeling for this then? Or waving flags?

It’s clearly higher up the pecking order, for you.

You’ve prioritised it at the expense of the others.
Have you thought this through, or just gone with the programme?

I kneel for everything mate , in fact I’ve just bought a pair of knee pads. 🙄✊

Particularly the wife🤭🤭

[yattongas]

Nov 24, 2022 10:02:49 GMT trevorgas said:

Nov 24, 2022 8:42:11 GMT yattongas said:

I kneel for everything mate , in fact I’ve just bought a pair of knee pads. 🙄✊

Particularly the wife🤭🤭

 I curtsy every time she walks in the room .

[baggins]

Nov 24, 2022 10:05:49 GMT yattongas said:

Nov 24, 2022 10:02:49 GMT trevorgas said:

Particularly the wife🤭🤭

 I curtsy every time she walks in the room .

What's Trevorgas's Wife doing in your room?

[yattongas]

Nov 24, 2022 11:44:50 GMT baggins said:

Nov 24, 2022 10:05:49 GMT yattongas said:

 I curtsy every time she walks in the room .

What's Trevorgas's Wife doing in your room?

Shush 🤫 

[fintanstack]

Nov 24, 2022 8:18:59 GMT gulfofaden said:

Nov 24, 2022 8:07:03 GMT oldie said:

Goodness me.
Is that copied and pasted from "Insularity Weekly"?
However it's clear the Iranian men's football team don't agree with you and showed their support for the fight for female equality in Iran. Support that may well have consequences for them personally if and when they return to Iran.

From your monologue this jumped out at me

"If you’d just left football to be about football without inserting the cult of progressivisms messaging in it to help educate those stupid working class people"

Faux culture war at its finest.

Here are some things which you might want to think about:

Child abuse
War
Modern slavery
Gang violence
Poverty

All of which are greater ills than equality, but not a whisper? Why? Why is it relentlessly sexuality and racism?

Why? It’s a cult. If you’re not in the cult, you see the bizzare nature of the the selective outrage. With all the stuff going on in the world, and this is the main event?

Sort out all these things and I’ll happily join you on your quest for equality.

Some of us have different priorities and can view the worlds ills in context. If you want to ride the wave of “the current thing” feel free, to me, it’s a tired old hobby horse which has been playing my entire life, relentlessly and it’s about time other things, of greater magnitude get a bit of attention.

It’s weird, from my point of view. All the horrific things going on, and we make a song and dance about this. We’ve had legal equity for years, most people can’t remember the old world.

As I say, hobby horse. I mean, what more can be done other than control the function of peoples minds to not think unkind things?
There’s a huge, immoral child sex tourism industry in Asia, there’s more kids dying in the U.K. of gang violence in the U.K. each year than have died of racism and homophobia in the last 20 years.

I have literally no idea why people screen all this sh** out and conclude than some aged Christians not approving of homosexuality is the biggest issue.

The things you list are equally if not more important but much less easily solvable.

Treating people fairly and equally regardless of gender, colour or sexual orientation should be a lot easier to fix and yet some how it has not been.

I was always taught that you fix multiple problems by tackling the the low hanging fruit. Certainly not by saying "oh, let's not fix that because there are bigger issues" as you appear to advocate.

To pass off the idea of being kinder to others as a cult is utter nonsense too.

Where I do agree with you is that (The West) British people could and should do much more to solve our own problems before we decide to berate every other world culture.

I am not sure if that means direct action, voting habits or simply better education of our children but given some of your posts in other threads I imagine you would not agree with any of these potential solutions either because it is much easier to take snide pot shots from the wings at stupid, woke, liberal, lefty cult members than it is to actually do anything positive.

[gulfofaden]

Nov 24, 2022 16:44:40 GMT fintanstack said:

Nov 24, 2022 8:18:59 GMT gulfofaden said:

Here are some things which you might want to think about:

Child abuse
War
Modern slavery
Gang violence
Poverty

All of which are greater ills than equality, but not a whisper? Why? Why is it relentlessly sexuality and racism?

Why? It’s a cult. If you’re not in the cult, you see the bizzare nature of the the selective outrage. With all the stuff going on in the world, and this is the main event?

Sort out all these things and I’ll happily join you on your quest for equality.

Some of us have different priorities and can view the worlds ills in context. If you want to ride the wave of “the current thing” feel free, to me, it’s a tired old hobby horse which has been playing my entire life, relentlessly and it’s about time other things, of greater magnitude get a bit of attention.

It’s weird, from my point of view. All the horrific things going on, and we make a song and dance about this. We’ve had legal equity for years, most people can’t remember the old world.

As I say, hobby horse. I mean, what more can be done other than control the function of peoples minds to not think unkind things?
There’s a huge, immoral child sex tourism industry in Asia, there’s more kids dying in the U.K. of gang violence in the U.K. each year than have died of racism and homophobia in the last 20 years.

I have literally no idea why people screen all this sh** out and conclude than some aged Christians not approving of homosexuality is the biggest issue.

The things you list are equally if not more important but much less easily solvable.

Treating people fairly and equally regardless of gender, colour or sexual orientation should be a lot easier to fix and yet some how it has not been.

I was always taught that you fix multiple problems by tackling the the low hanging fruit. Certainly not by saying "oh, let's not fix that because there are bigger issues" as you appear to advocate.

To pass off the idea of being kinder to others as a cult is utter nonsense too.

Where I do agree with you is that (The West) British people could and should do much more to solve our own problems before we decide to berate every other world culture.

I am not sure if that means direct action, voting habits or simply better education of our children but given some of your posts in other threads I imagine you would not agree with any of these potential solutions either because it is much easier to take snide pot shots from the wings at stupid, woke, liberal, lefty cult members than it is to actually do anything positive.

On the contrary, I raise plenty of money for charity. That’s the correct function to try to help people, rather than forcing people to.

It’s not “being kinder to others”. If it were to be “kinder to others” that would encompass all the things we’ve both said.

It’s focussing strictly on racism, sexism and homophobia, exclusively. Helping the elderly is some low hanging fruit? How about helping old people who are on their own?

I’m not interested in any of your diversions, neither you or oldie, in bringing up other viewpoints because it’s juvenile in group/our group nonsense. We are discussing this issue, not raking up what you can from other posts.

[aghast]

Nov 24, 2022 17:08:12 GMT gulfofaden said:

Nov 24, 2022 16:44:40 GMT fintanstack said:

The things you list are equally if not more important but much less easily solvable.

Treating people fairly and equally regardless of gender, colour or sexual orientation should be a lot easier to fix and yet some how it has not been.

I was always taught that you fix multiple problems by tackling the the low hanging fruit. Certainly not by saying "oh, let's not fix that because there are bigger issues" as you appear to advocate.

To pass off the idea of being kinder to others as a cult is utter nonsense too.

Where I do agree with you is that (The West) British people could and should do much more to solve our own problems before we decide to berate every other world culture.

I am not sure if that means direct action, voting habits or simply better education of our children but given some of your posts in other threads I imagine you would not agree with any of these potential solutions either because it is much easier to take snide pot shots from the wings at stupid, woke, liberal, lefty cult members than it is to actually do anything positive.

On the contrary, I raise plenty of money for charity. That’s the correct function to try to help people, rather than forcing people to.

It’s not “being kinder to others”. If it were to be “kinder to others” that would encompass all the things we’ve both said.

It’s focussing strictly on racism, sexism and homophobia, exclusively. Helping the elderly is some low hanging fruit? How about helping old people who are on their own?

I’m not interested in any of your diversions, neither you or oldie, in bringing up other viewpoints because it’s juvenile in group/our group nonsense. We are discussing this issue, not raking up what you can from other posts.

You do zoom in like a heat-seeking missile on anything vaguely lefty-liberal though, even if the cause is well meaning and helpful to a majority. Perhaps you're not aware of it and you can't help yourself, or you know exactly what you're doing.

[fintanstack]

Nov 24, 2022 17:08:12 GMT gulfofaden said:

Nov 24, 2022 16:44:40 GMT fintanstack said:

The things you list are equally if not more important but much less easily solvable.

Treating people fairly and equally regardless of gender, colour or sexual orientation should be a lot easier to fix and yet some how it has not been.

I was always taught that you fix multiple problems by tackling the the low hanging fruit. Certainly not by saying "oh, let's not fix that because there are bigger issues" as you appear to advocate.

To pass off the idea of being kinder to others as a cult is utter nonsense too.

Where I do agree with you is that (The West) British people could and should do much more to solve our own problems before we decide to berate every other world culture.

I am not sure if that means direct action, voting habits or simply better education of our children but given some of your posts in other threads I imagine you would not agree with any of these potential solutions either because it is much easier to take snide pot shots from the wings at stupid, woke, liberal, lefty cult members than it is to actually do anything positive.

On the contrary, I raise plenty of money for charity. That’s the correct function to try to help people, rather than forcing people to.

It’s not “being kinder to others”. If it were to be “kinder to others” that would encompass all the things we’ve both said.

It’s focussing strictly on racism, sexism and homophobia, exclusively. Helping the elderly is some low hanging fruit? How about helping old people who are on their own?

I’m not interested in any of your diversions, neither you or oldie, in bringing up other viewpoints because it’s juvenile in group/our group nonsense. We are discussing this issue, not raking up what you can from other posts.

Charity is not always the solution and sometimes people do need to be forced to do the right thing otherwise why have government agencies and laws.

I accept I am open to criticism here and you will no doubt provide examples, but Charity does nothing more than show the failing of government and society.

Help the Aged should not exist. Health, social care, heating, food and a safe place to live for the elderly should be provided as standard no?

[gulfofaden]

Nov 24, 2022 17:38:52 GMT fintanstack said:

Nov 24, 2022 17:08:12 GMT gulfofaden said:

On the contrary, I raise plenty of money for charity. That’s the correct function to try to help people, rather than forcing people to.

It’s not “being kinder to others”. If it were to be “kinder to others” that would encompass all the things we’ve both said.

It’s focussing strictly on racism, sexism and homophobia, exclusively. Helping the elderly is some low hanging fruit? How about helping old people who are on their own?

I’m not interested in any of your diversions, neither you or oldie, in bringing up other viewpoints because it’s juvenile in group/our group nonsense. We are discussing this issue, not raking up what you can from other posts.

Charity is not always the solution and sometimes people do need to be forced to do the right thing otherwise why have government agencies and laws.

I accept I am open to criticism here and you will no doubt provide examples, but Charity does nothing more than show the failing of government and society.

Help the Aged should not exist. Health, social care, heating, food and a safe place to live for the elderly should be provided as standard no?

Charity is not always the solution and sometimes people do need to be forced to do the right thing

Who defines what “the right thing is”?
Is it not possibly that the right thing for some is not the right thing as for others?
If it’s “the majority”, does this make it “the right thing” or just the thing most people want, and does that make it morally right? Or just mob rule?

otherwise why have government agencies and laws

Laws are required to defend individual and property rights.
As for agencies, I agree, why have government agencies? The vast majority of them are terribly run.



.

I accept I am open to criticism here and you will no doubt provide examples, but Charity does nothing more than show the failing of government and society.

Why is obtaining funds for helping people better under threat of violence better than voluntary donations?
Do you actually think it’s possible to build a society where people want for nothing? What makes you think they can, we’ve been trying really hard for about 10,000 years.



Help the Aged should not exist. Health, social care, heating, food and a safe place to live for the elderly should be provided as standard no?[/quote]


Do you have a magic beanstalk or Aladdin’s lamp.

If you’re asking me if I want the above in return for paying more tax, no.

I’m not a member of a plantation, or a commune. I’m an individual, as are you, and not a worker bee for a hive. I think it’s profoundly immoral to impose high taxes on people to pay for solutions you want, or I want, or anyone else. The fruits of our productive labour should be your own. Freeloading off others is disgusting.

Now, giving people the means to earn, like land at cheap rates, and using public money to help educate themselves at low rates, I’m all for that.

Providing all of this for free is just the wastrels dream and we should not be creating a society of wastrels.

Plus, if you think bunging another £500BN a year down the throat of public services will result in any of the above, and not another absolute mess of chummy jobs and contracts you’re mistaken.

If you give this kind of money to people who don’t have a bottom line, the money might as well be built. The fact your company can fail is what keeps organisations trim and honest.