yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Apr 8, 2021 10:43:46 GMT
Another beautiful sense of irony that he says the main issues of society come from class and societal background. Yet, if you disagree with him - you get insulted and stereotyped for being from a different background. Couldn’t make it up Insulted? Who have I insulted? The only person using insulting language was Yatton. I thought you were Mr Editor, haven't edited that though, have you? Diddums , I said you were being a bit of a knob ( you were ). My god how precious are you ? Ok , I apologise. You though crack on with calling me a liar and saying how what ever I post is typical of someone of my ilk .... by the way what exactly do you mean by that ? |
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Post by Gassy on Apr 8, 2021 10:44:58 GMT
Another beautiful sense of irony that he says the main issues of society come from class and societal background. Yet, if you disagree with him - you get insulted and stereotyped for being from a different background. Couldn’t make it up Insulted? Who have I insulted? The only person using insulting language was Yatton. I thought you were Mr Editor, haven't edited that though, have you? If you're saying to someone 'Again, no real surprise from somebody of your ilk.' - then thats an insult. I haven't edited any of your posts, who's making up lies now? Touched a nerve, obviously. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 8, 2021 10:55:11 GMT
Gastafari who’s opinion is always a fact . I remember in the lead up months to the US election when I said I thought Biden would win the election but was told 100% that Trump would win . How did that one work out ?
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 8, 2021 11:11:26 GMT
Honestly. Just like Yatton, you've just decided to tell a pack of lies. The fact that you feel the need to outright lie to try and make a point, quite frankly makes the point null and void. I've listed countless factors, you've just chosen to not take any notice of them. All I said was that there were many major factors that were more important issues than institutional racism. Indeed I do believe that institutional racism being a factor is a myth. You just named things such as more Black Women dying in Child Birth as being down to racism. When it's simply a genetic fact that happens to Black women all over the World, from Britain to Burkina Faso. I haven't said that only my opinion is correct, but when you reel off things that are simply a Biological, Genetic fact and use it as sn example of racism, i'll pull you up on it. On your final 2 points, I think those conversations were because you got the wrong end of the stick, yet again and kept arguing for the sake of it. I haven't lied at all. Yes, you've listed some factors - but deny institutional racism exists in the UK. You can't back that up, you can only give statistics about other areas. As I said yesterday, proving the colour green exists, doesn't prove that the colour red doesn't exist. I named black women dying as one factor, it was the only point you seemed to pick on as it's the only point you could argue against. Even then, your entire statement about Asian women was incorrect. You've stated your opinion multiple times and then refer to anyone who doesn't agree with it as ignoring the facts. That's a fact. On the last point, I didn't get the wrong end at all. You made a direct comparison of a woman taking maternity to being on holiday. Then you made a direct comparison of a peaceful protest Vs the riots and said "it's happened before". There is only one end of the stick to get there. You say I'm arguing for the sake of it, but I am the person who has conceded any point and has the open mind to accepting other possibilities. The same cannot be said for yourself. Yet again. So much untruths in what you've written. Yet again, All I've said is that I dont believe that 'Institutional racism' is a major factor, and that it being a major factor is a myth. You seem to be failing to get your head around that. The Black Women/Child Birth point wasn't the only one I picked up on at all. I actually replied to a few of them. My statement was very much true in regards to 'Asian' Women. I said more White Women die during Child birth than Women from Chinese and other Oriental backgrounds which is true. No real surprise that those figures lumped other oriental backgrounds into the Asian category. I.e people of Filipino, Thai, Japanese backgrounds. Yet seperated Chinese. Wonder why? Because it would show a completely different story, wouldn't it? So no it wasn't incorrect at all. You once again decided to get the wrong end of the stick and argue about it. |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 8, 2021 11:15:11 GMT
Insulted? Who have I insulted? The only person using insulting language was Yatton. I thought you were Mr Editor, haven't edited that though, have you? If you're saying to someone 'Again, no real surprise from somebody of your ilk.' - then thats an insult. I haven't edited any of your posts, who's making up lies now? Touched a nerve, obviously. What are you going on about? I haven't said you've edited any of my posts 🙄 Just pointing out that you've admitted to editing others posts, because of the language used. Yet don't when others call people 'knobs'. In fact you actually like the post. |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 8, 2021 11:18:31 GMT
Insulted? Who have I insulted? The only person using insulting language was Yatton. I thought you were Mr Editor, haven't edited that though, have you? Diddums , I said you were being a bit of a knob ( you were ). My god how precious are you ? Ok , I apologise. You though crack on with calling me a liar and saying how what ever I post is typical of someone of my ilk .... by the way what exactly do you mean by that ? You know full well what I meant by that. You're nothing but an internet troll, a standard WUM. |
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Post by Gassy on Apr 8, 2021 11:24:35 GMT
If you're saying to someone 'Again, no real surprise from somebody of your ilk.' - then thats an insult. I haven't edited any of your posts, who's making up lies now? Touched a nerve, obviously. What are you going on about? I haven't said you've edited any of my posts 🙄 Just pointing out that you've admitted to editing others posts, because of the language used. Yet don't when others call people 'knobs'. In fact you actually like the post. I have little issues with someone saying someone is being a knob (rather than saying “you are a knob”) Likewise if you want to insult Yatton back by stereotyping his background, then fine. But don’t act high and mighty whilst saying we have issues of stereotyping people’s backgrounds. I also believed you were being a knob, hence I liked it. Or are you going to start arguing that as well now? |
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Post by Gassy on Apr 8, 2021 11:25:20 GMT
I haven't lied at all. Yes, you've listed some factors - but deny institutional racism exists in the UK. You can't back that up, you can only give statistics about other areas. As I said yesterday, proving the colour green exists, doesn't prove that the colour red doesn't exist. I named black women dying as one factor, it was the only point you seemed to pick on as it's the only point you could argue against. Even then, your entire statement about Asian women was incorrect. You've stated your opinion multiple times and then refer to anyone who doesn't agree with it as ignoring the facts. That's a fact. On the last point, I didn't get the wrong end at all. You made a direct comparison of a woman taking maternity to being on holiday. Then you made a direct comparison of a peaceful protest Vs the riots and said "it's happened before". There is only one end of the stick to get there. You say I'm arguing for the sake of it, but I am the person who has conceded any point and has the open mind to accepting other possibilities. The same cannot be said for yourself. Yet again. So much untruths in what you've written. Yet again, All I've said is that I dont believe that 'Institutional racism' is a major factor, and that it being a major factor is a myth. You seem to be failing to get your head around that. The Black Women/Child Birth point wasn't the only one I picked up on at all. I actually replied to a few of them. My statement was very much true in regards to 'Asian' Women. I said more White Women die during Child birth than Women from Chinese and other Oriental backgrounds which is true. No real surprise that those figures lumped other oriental backgrounds into the Asian category. I.e people of Filipino, Thai, Japanese backgrounds. Yet seperated Chinese. Wonder why? Because it would show a completely different story, wouldn't it? So no it wasn't incorrect at all. You once again decided to get the wrong end of the stick and argue about it. So you admit institutional racism exists in the UK? Yes or no. |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 8, 2021 11:27:10 GMT
Gastafari who’s opinion is always a fact . I remember in the lead up months to the US election when I said I thought Biden would win the election but was told 100% that Trump would win . How did that one work out ? That was simply a prediction. I am sure you've predicted on Rovers to win or lose and the result went against what you predicted. If predictions were always right, Bookies wouldn't be in business would they? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing. |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Apr 8, 2021 11:27:39 GMT
Diddums , I said you were being a bit of a knob ( you were ). My god how precious are you ? Ok , I apologise. You though crack on with calling me a liar and saying how what ever I post is typical of someone of my ilk .... by the way what exactly do you mean by that ? You know full well what I meant by that. You're nothing but an internet troll, a standard WUM. You’ll have to explain because I’m a bit of a simpleton. what winds you up , is anyone who disagrees with your myopic viewpoints . Maybe forums aren’t the place for you. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 8, 2021 11:39:19 GMT
Gastafari who’s opinion is always a fact . I remember in the lead up months to the US election when I said I thought Biden would win the election but was told 100% that Trump would win . How did that one work out ? That was simply a prediction. I am sure you've predicted on Rovers to win or lose and the result went against what you predicted. If predictions were always right, Bookies wouldn't be in business would they? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing. It’s not a prediction when you said it would 100% happen. That’s not how a bookies odds work is it ? 🙄 |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 8, 2021 11:39:27 GMT
Yet again. So much untruths in what you've written. Yet again, All I've said is that I dont believe that 'Institutional racism' is a major factor, and that it being a major factor is a myth. You seem to be failing to get your head around that. The Black Women/Child Birth point wasn't the only one I picked up on at all. I actually replied to a few of them. My statement was very much true in regards to 'Asian' Women. I said more White Women die during Child birth than Women from Chinese and other Oriental backgrounds which is true. No real surprise that those figures lumped other oriental backgrounds into the Asian category. I.e people of Filipino, Thai, Japanese backgrounds. Yet seperated Chinese. Wonder why? Because it would show a completely different story, wouldn't it? So no it wasn't incorrect at all. You once again decided to get the wrong end of the stick and argue about it. So you admit institutional racism exists in the UK? Yes or no. In 2021, no I dont. Do I agree that outright racism, exists? Absolutely. Which institutions are proven to be 'institutionally racist'? I think you've mentioned before about 'Burden of proof', I've mentioned this previously that incidents of racism within an organisation or an institution in no way means that the whole system or structure of the organisation or institution is deep rooted in discrimination or racism. I also stated that imo disparities in many sectors aren't either, and that many other factors play a part. |
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Post by Gassy on Apr 8, 2021 12:05:16 GMT
So you admit institutional racism exists in the UK? Yes or no. In 2021, no I dont. Do I agree that outright racism, exists? Absolutely. Which institutions are proven to be 'institutionally racist'? I think you've mentioned before about 'Burden of proof', I've mentioned this previously that incidents of racism within an organisation or an institution in no way means that the whole system or structure of the organisation or institution is deep rooted in discrimination or racism. I also stated that imo disparities in many sectors aren't either, and that many other factors play a part. So whos being contradicting now? " So you admit institutional racism exists in the UK? Yes or no. In 2021, no I don't". "All I've said is that I dont believe that 'Institutional racism' is a major factor" "But "Systemic" or "Institutional" racism in the UK, just like the US, is a modern day, myth." One minute it's a myth, then it's not a major factor, now it doesn't exist at all. There are unfortunately examples and reports of institutional racism in the NHS. I do agree that there is a fine line between individual cases of racism and institutional, but as Cambridge dictionary defines, "policies, rules, practices, etc. that are a usual part of the way an organization works, and that result in and support a continued unfair advantage to some people and unfair or harmful treatment of others based on race:" In other words, if racist decisions keep happening at an organisation then it becomes institutional under the grounds of practices becoming usual. But I'll admit this can be blurry. |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 8, 2021 12:38:20 GMT
In 2021, no I dont. Do I agree that outright racism, exists? Absolutely. Which institutions are proven to be 'institutionally racist'? I think you've mentioned before about 'Burden of proof', I've mentioned this previously that incidents of racism within an organisation or an institution in no way means that the whole system or structure of the organisation or institution is deep rooted in discrimination or racism. I also stated that imo disparities in many sectors aren't either, and that many other factors play a part. So whos being contradicting now? " So you admit institutional racism exists in the UK? Yes or no. In 2021, no I don't". "All I've said is that I dont believe that 'Institutional racism' is a major factor" "But "Systemic" or "Institutional" racism in the UK, just like the US, is a modern day, myth." One minute it's a myth, then it's not a major factor, now it doesn't exist at all. There are unfortunately examples and reports of institutional racism in the NHS. I do agree that there is a fine line between individual cases of racism and institutional, but as Cambridge dictionary defines, "policies, rules, practices, etc. that are a usual part of the way an organization works, and that result in and support a continued unfair advantage to some people and unfair or harmful treatment of others based on race:" In other words, if racist decisions keep happening at an organisation then it becomes institutional under the grounds of practices becoming usual. But I'll admit this can be blurry. You asked me Do I admit that institutional racism exists? My stance on it is clear, I feel it is a myth, and is just a buzz phrase, a trope, and just a lazy theory by people who dont want to delve deeper into evidence or statistics to try and get answers. Hence, I believe it is a myth and why I believe it isn't a major factor, in fact not one at all. It's just my opinion. Of course there is no concrete, unequivocal proof that institutional racism doesn't exist, likewise there isnt any that it does. It's like if you're religious or an athiest. There's no concrete, unequivocal proof either way. Which is why some people class themselves as agnostic. I like to delve deeper, research and look for evidence and facts to come to my opinion. Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. I'd like to know what policies, rules and practices are specifically in place that are harmful to people based solely on race and purely built around discrimination and racism. Just calling it 'Institutional racism' is lazy. |
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Post by oldie on Apr 8, 2021 14:05:40 GMT
So
We all agree that there are societal factors influencing the under performance of afro carribbean and white working class kids.
Given that these two groups are equally as bad, are we saying that single parent families in the white working class families are as in afro carribbean families?
If so there is a high probability that there are shared causal factors. What are they?
Is it relative poverty?
The Ghettoisation of poverty?
Lack of investment educational facilities and provision?
Poor health outcomes?
The lack of mobility and the subsequent Ghettoisation of unemployment?
What do YOU think on these questions Gastafari?
Given your perspective.
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 8, 2021 15:13:16 GMT
So We all agree that there are societal factors influencing the under performance of afro carribbean and white working class kids. Given that these two groups are equally as bad, are we saying that single parent families in the white working class families are as in afro carribbean families? If so there is a high probability that there are shared causal factors. What are they? Is it relative poverty? The Ghettoisation of poverty? Lack of investment educational facilities and provision? Poor health outcomes? The lack of mobility and the subsequent Ghettoisation of unemployment? What do YOU think on these questions Gastafari? Given your perspective. Oldie, we're just regurgitating the same old stuff. I think we actually agree on the majority of it. There are shared factors with all these groups. However there are also clear differences and disparities that we've gone through, geography both domestically and internationally, 'culture', 'religion', class, and education. There are many different Sociological reasons for these, as I think we both also agree on. Which is a very in depth subject. My whole stance has been that very little of it actually has to do with 'Race'. Which I feel I have actually backed up. |
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Post by oldie on Apr 8, 2021 15:59:38 GMT
So We all agree that there are societal factors influencing the under performance of afro carribbean and white working class kids. Given that these two groups are equally as bad, are we saying that single parent families in the white working class families are as in afro carribbean families? If so there is a high probability that there are shared causal factors. What are they? Is it relative poverty? The Ghettoisation of poverty? Lack of investment educational facilities and provision? Poor health outcomes? The lack of mobility and the subsequent Ghettoisation of unemployment? What do YOU think on these questions Gastafari? Given your perspective. Oldie, we're just regurgitating the same old stuff. I think we actually agree on the majority of it. There are shared factors with all these groups. However there are also clear differences and disparities that we've gone through, geography both domestically and internationally, 'culture', 'religion', class, and education. There are many different Sociological reasons for these, as I think we both also agree on. Which is a very in depth subject. My whole stance has been that very little of it actually has to do with 'Race'. Which I feel I have actually backed up. I am trying to identify causal factors. Let me try again. You specifically brought up some societal characteristics which you assigned to our Afro Carribbean friends. Given the similarity of educational outcomes, woukd you assign the same characteristics to white working class famalies? |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 8, 2021 16:50:15 GMT
Oldie, we're just regurgitating the same old stuff. I think we actually agree on the majority of it. There are shared factors with all these groups. However there are also clear differences and disparities that we've gone through, geography both domestically and internationally, 'culture', 'religion', class, and education. There are many different Sociological reasons for these, as I think we both also agree on. Which is a very in depth subject. My whole stance has been that very little of it actually has to do with 'Race'. Which I feel I have actually backed up. I am trying to identify causal factors. Let me try again. You specifically brought up some societal characteristics which you assigned to our Afro Carribbean friends. Given the similarity of educational outcomes, woukd you assign the same characteristics to white working class famalies? I am struggling to understand, what you are saying Oldie. Which White working class families? White British? White Irish? White Italian? White Polish? White Albanian? Once again, there are disparities and differences between these different 'White' groups which determine outcomes whether it's educational or otherwise. Likewise there is between different Black African backgrounds and Carribean. Do they all share certain common factors? Absolutely. Do they have many that they don't? Of course. I honestly don't know what you're getting at. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 8, 2021 16:52:14 GMT
societal characteristics
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Post by oldie on Apr 8, 2021 17:09:24 GMT
Precisely Yatton. Gastafari Its a direct question. When outcomes are so similar, is it because of very similar societal characteristics? In your opinion |
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