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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2022 21:37:32 GMT
Totally agree with the academy shout for referees. Not just taught the rules inside out but also how to deal with verbal abuse, still can't believe the same stories keep resurfacing of refs having to lock themselves in dressing rooms as all hell breaks loose. At grassroots level, it's not just people being verbal though, threats of physical violence, and, in some cases spectators wading in. All leads to a shortage of people taking up the whistle (why on earth would you?), so a smaller gene pool to fish in for decent refs to move up the ladder. I think there are new, harsher punishments coming in soon, with regard to people who abuse referees - not sure if that will make any difference, so many people just don't know how to moderate their behaviour these days. I used to manage at youth level for a couple of seasons and both my boys played and refereed. Had police presence away at St Marks in Cheltenham once as the home fixture ended in violence when one of the parents of the other team smashed up the car of the Dad who's son played in goal for us and saved a late penalty to make the result a draw. So when we played at theirs police were there, this was under 14s, so many other threats. As for refereeing, both of mine gave up within a year which was shame as the both played for years at a decent level and understood the game. One of them recently appointed head of football analytics for the largest sports agency in the world, working with agents and the big names, so he knows his football. Zero tolerance should be applied from a very young age IMO, my youngest got abuse at one game for letting the game flow more than one father agreed with. He blew whistle stopped the game, ran up to the bloke and said you abuse me again and I will abandon the game and let the players know you were the reason, made me so proud that day as parents cheered his words and shook his hand after. |
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Post by socrates on Dec 26, 2022 22:02:38 GMT
Just watched it in slow motion. Offside. But some go your way and some don’t. Feels a bit like we were robbed and a point would have been a fair result but just got to pick ourselves up and win Thursday and New Year’s Day. UTG I've just watched it back a few times and the more I watch it the more it does look offside in fairness, although it's a dodgy camera angle. Yeah need to be in line really but from sky sports angle it’s a bit easier to see than I follow. It’s typical really that the officials got most of the big decisions wrong. Happens a lot at this level. |
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Post by pucklechurchgas on Dec 26, 2022 22:49:34 GMT
Do not agree with it, however, the dark arts are very much a part of the game and Wycombe are very good at this and are a strong team.
We can’t complain that they managed the game more effectively, especially when we knew this is how they would set up.
Still plenty of time for us to clinch the final play off spot - UTG
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Post by aforce on Dec 27, 2022 0:53:39 GMT
Do not agree with it, however, the dark arts are very much a part of the game and Wycombe are very good at this and are a strong team. We can’t complain that they managed the game more effectively, especially when we knew this is how they would set up. Still plenty of time for us to clinch the final play off spot - UTG Can’t see how people can moan about the “dark arts” we were doing it at 1-0 up after 10 mins was pathetic. It’s a mindset that led us into losing our lead. Coutts seems to do the dark arts even when we’re losing. |
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Dec 27, 2022 3:56:47 GMT
At grassroots level, it's not just people being verbal though, threats of physical violence, and, in some cases spectators wading in. All leads to a shortage of people taking up the whistle (why on earth would you?), so a smaller gene pool to fish in for decent refs to move up the ladder. I think there are new, harsher punishments coming in soon, with regard to people who abuse referees - not sure if that will make any difference, so many people just don't know how to moderate their behaviour these days. I used to manage at youth level for a couple of seasons and both my boys played and refereed. Had police presence away at St Marks in Cheltenham once as the home fixture ended in violence when one of the parents of the other team smashed up the car of the Dad who's son played in goal for us and saved a late penalty to make the result a draw. So when we played at theirs police were there, this was under 14s, so many other threats. As for refereeing, both of mine gave up within a year which was shame as the both played for years at a decent level and understood the game. One of them recently appointed head of football analytics for the largest sports agency in the world, working with agents and the big names, so he knows his football. Zero tolerance should be applied from a very young age IMO, my youngest got abuse at one game for letting the game flow more than one father agreed with. He blew whistle stopped the game, ran up to the bloke and said you abuse me again and I will abandon the game and let the players know you were the reason, made me so proud that day as parents cheered his words and shook his hand after.
That deserves a massive "like" - well done your son! |
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Post by peterparker on Dec 27, 2022 6:48:19 GMT
Do not agree with it, however, the dark arts are very much a part of the game and Wycombe are very good at this and are a strong team. We can’t complain that they managed the game more effectively, especially when we knew this is how they would set up. Still plenty of time for us to clinch the final play off spot - UTG Can’t see how people can moan about the “dark arts” we were doing it at 1-0 up after 10 mins was pathetic. It’s a mindset that led us into losing our lead. Coutts seems to do the dark arts even when we’re losing. Quite. We time waste and 'cheat' just like every other team does. Some do it more than others, but they are all at it. |
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Post by Sir Trevor on Dec 27, 2022 9:36:18 GMT
Gareth Ainsworth has stated in his post match interviews that he selected his side to add some extra physicality and know-how to his front end. Sam VOKES was highlighted.
The Chairboys team selection for this fixture focused upon selecting a large cohort of very experienced players.
It is somewhat reminiscent of the Derby County experience in our last league defeat where two old hands played effectively together against us.
Our back four yesterday at the start were:
LUCA HOOLE - Aged 20 - 47 league appearances
JAMES CONNOLLY - Aged 21 - 36 league appearances
LEWIS GIBSON - Aged 22 - 42 league appearances
BOBBY THOMAS - Aged 21 - 37 league appearances
In comparison, they were faced with:
DAVID WHEELER - Aged 32 - 323 league appearances
SAM VOKES - Aged 33 - 512 league appearances
GARATH McCLEARY - Aged 35 - 447 league appearances
JOSH SCOWEN - Aged 29 - 380 league appearances
Wycombe Wanderers average squad age is normally 29-30; only exceeded by Sheffield Wednesday in League One this season.
Our young defenders are very good individually and should be persevered with but occasionally the old pros may just have the edge in tight games. As time progresses this lack of street wise cleverness will be understood and overcome.
UTG
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Post by herbertblake on Dec 27, 2022 9:47:29 GMT
Of course the match for Barton was a painful memory of Ainsworth team winning 4 1 at the first leg of the 2019/20 play off final at Fleetwood Town. That day the Cod Army had two players sent off.
Barton effectively took them as far as he could but the Wycombe defeat still haunts him I am sure.
His pre match interview about Ainsworth clearly revealed that and his Hanlan remark about he was disappointed he was not starting because he rarely scores rather than Vokes was again insightful.
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Post by dudelebowski on Dec 27, 2022 9:50:42 GMT
If Hoole’s the answer, Christ knows what the question is. Very poor yesterday especially the first goal when he’s left his man wide and been sucked in to the ball carrier when Bobby Thomas more than had that covered.
His hesitancy and panic when in a crossing positions also infuriating. All the time in the world late on yesterday to box it, goes backwards to Evans for the most unnecessary one two in history & the ball ends up out for a goal kick. Just one of half a dozen occasions the ball didn’t end up in the box after we’d worked it well to his side of the pitch.
Not the only poor performer by a long stretch but one who’s struggled with this step up, especially against skilful wide men and/or experienced heads.
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 27, 2022 9:57:43 GMT
If it does it then sets up the return game nicely, as assuming we have a virtually fully fit squad we could well get revenge.
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 27, 2022 10:07:03 GMT
Gareth Ainsworth has stated in his post match interviews that he selected his side to add some extra physicality and know-how to his front end. Sam VOKES was highlighted. The Chairboys team selection for this fixture focused upon selecting a large cohort of very experienced players. It is somewhat reminiscent of the Derby County experience in our last league defeat where two old hands played effectively together against us. Our back four yesterday at the start were: LUCA HOOLE - Aged 20 - 47 league appearances JAMES CONNOLLY - Aged 21 - 36 league appearances LEWIS GIBSON - Aged 22 - 42 league appearances BOBBY THOMAS - Aged 21 - 37 league appearances In comparison, they were faced with: DAVID WHEELER - Aged 32 - 323 league appearances SAM VOKES - Aged 33 - 512 league appearances GARATH McCLEARY - Aged 35 - 447 league appearances JOSH SCOWEN - Aged 29 - 380 league appearances Wycombe Wanderers average squad age is normally 29-30; only exceeded by Sheffield Wednesday in League One this season. Our young defenders are very good individually and should be persevered with but occasionally the old pros may just have the edge in tight games. As time progresses this lack of street wise cleverness will be understood and overcome. UTG I thought our 3 experienced pros, Coutts, Marquis and Sinclair were our worst players yesterday, the latter two so poor it was like playing with 9 men. |
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Dec 27, 2022 10:38:42 GMT
Wycombe reminded me of a better version of Northampton last season in the style they played. The sort of team that stops you from playing and slows the game down.
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Post by pucklegas on Dec 27, 2022 10:48:50 GMT
Thought we were the better team but not clinical enough, we had some bad luck too in their box late on.
Think we miss Rossiter to keep the momentum going in midfield.
They re not a bad side but experts at closing games out from any minute they choose! UTG
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Post by GasAttacK on Dec 27, 2022 10:56:33 GMT
I thought we were excellent until they scored and still pretty good until we went behind.
After that, we found it difficult to break down a well organised Wycombe side who know how to defend a lead.
Frustrating because I felt we were the better team overall and had we got a second when we were well on top would probably have won the game.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2022 11:11:59 GMT
I used to manage at youth level for a couple of seasons and both my boys played and refereed. Had police presence away at St Marks in Cheltenham once as the home fixture ended in violence when one of the parents of the other team smashed up the car of the Dad who's son played in goal for us and saved a late penalty to make the result a draw. So when we played at theirs police were there, this was under 14s, so many other threats. As for refereeing, both of mine gave up within a year which was shame as the both played for years at a decent level and understood the game. One of them recently appointed head of football analytics for the largest sports agency in the world, working with agents and the big names, so he knows his football. Zero tolerance should be applied from a very young age IMO, my youngest got abuse at one game for letting the game flow more than one father agreed with. He blew whistle stopped the game, ran up to the bloke and said you abuse me again and I will abandon the game and let the players know you were the reason, made me so proud that day as parents cheered his words and shook his hand after.
That deserves a massive "like" - well done your son! It's a shame other young refs don't have that level of confidence. I have a wild theory to clean up the game. As toggsy2 suggested create a youth academy of referees. They turn to full-time professional at 21 starting at National League level. In conjunction with refereeing at academies, martial arts or boxing to be integrated at the same time for 5 years. Banish yellows and red cards and replace with refs having a pop at the divers, time wasters, general cheating. Make someone like Vinnie Jones ambassador of the referee academy! Crazy, tongue in cheek thinking, but would certainly clean the game up to the mess it has become in recent years and we could have the beautiful game back. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2022 11:35:47 GMT
It’s a pity we got dragged down to their level, but I think JB got the formation wrong. I’ve said it a few times before but our main way of playing is trying to free up space for Collins and coburn in the channels by constantly working the ball backwards and sideways, looking for an opening, that was working in the first half because we created a couple of good chances and marquis was also playing a part in that with Collins and coburn.
We struggled to get Evans and Sinclair into the game, both were a bit wasted to be fair and I’m still not sure what Sinclairs best position is, maybe on the right of a front 3 or a right winger, because for me he isn’t a wingback and he isn’t whatever he was playing yesterday.
I saw some posts yesterday saying we needed new wingbacks and fullbacks based on yesterday game. I don’t believe they are the problem, it’s how we play which is the issue. We are not a team that just launches crosses and highballs into the box all the time because more often than not you lose it and it comes back at you. Even when it goes wide to a fullback or wingback we are constantly looking to keep the ball and work an opening, the only time they will start to put balls in is if we’ve worked them behind the opposition fullbacks. Watch closely and they’ll constantly go back or sideways with it, that’s not them being rubbish, it’s them playing to management instructions. No matter who plays fullback or wingback that’s what we do. We also don’t move it quickly enough to see wingbacks or fullbacks being released early to get at the opposition. How we play is sometimes too methodical and slow when teams sit in. The only time we go for it is when we’re chasing the game, but that’s not how JB wants to set up and he never starts games that way. Yesterday some fans near us were constantly berating Hoole for not crossing the ball, why don’t people see thats what he’s told to do, go backwards or sideways if the opening isn’t there? I really can’t believe that people are not noticing that. That’s our identity under JB.
But what was very evident yesterday was that by playing a centre half at left back we didn’t have any outlet down that side, which Gordon would have given us. I can see why we played Gibson there, because gordon isn’t that good defensively in the air or at defending the back post and Wycombe are purely a long ball team. Meanwhile Hoole started solidly enough but eventually got found out defensively again down that side and they had a lot of joy down there. Personally I think gordon should have come on later in the game when we went to back 3 at the back, just to give us an outlet down that side. I also prefer gibbons over hoole, he’s a much better defender IMO and even though Hoole had a decent second half against Charlton, gibbons had a great game in the week v MK Don’s and has much more know how about him as a defender.
I actually couldn’t work out what we were supposed to be playing as the game wore on. Whilst defeat isn’t the end of the world, it’s disappointing because Wycombe (whilst good at what they do) are very limited and I felt that we had the mobility up front to cause them problems. It’s just a pity a couple of defensive slips down out right cost us.
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 27, 2022 11:38:19 GMT
I thought we were excellent until they scored and still pretty good until we went behind. After that, we found it difficult to break down a well organised Wycombe side who know how to defend a lead. Frustrating because I felt we were the better team overall and had we got a second when we were well on top would probably have won the game. We had a decent 5 minutes spell after McCormick replaced Sinclair, unfortunately both shots we had were straight at the goalie, then LM was clearly fouled near near the corner on another promising attack but the ref waved play on and then we just seemed to fizzle out. |
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Post by greyscull on Dec 27, 2022 12:26:47 GMT
It’s a pity we got dragged down to their level, but I think JB got the formation wrong. I’ve said it a few times before but our main way of playing is trying to free up space for Collins and coburn in the channels by constantly working the ball backwards and sideways, looking for an opening, that was working in the first half because we created a couple of good chances and marquis was also playing a part in that with Collins and coburn. We struggled to get Evans and Sinclair into the game, both were a bit wasted to be fair and I’m still not sure what Sinclairs best position is, maybe on the right of a front 3 or a right winger, because for me he isn’t a wingback and he isn’t whatever he was playing yesterday. I saw some posts yesterday saying we needed new wingbacks and fullbacks based on yesterday game. I don’t believe they are the problem, it’s how we play which is the issue. We are not a team that just launches crosses and highballs into the box all the time because more often than not you lose it and it comes back at you. Even when it goes wide to a fullback or wingback we are constantly looking to keep the ball and work an opening, the only time they will start to put balls in is if we’ve worked them behind the opposition fullbacks. Watch closely and they’ll constantly go back or sideways with it, that’s not them being rubbish, it’s them playing to management instructions. No matter who plays fullback or wingback that’s what we do. We also don’t move it quickly enough to see wingbacks or fullbacks being released early to get at the opposition. How we play is sometimes too methodical and slow when teams sit in. The only time we go for it is when we’re chasing the game, but that’s not how JB wants to set up and he never starts games that way. Yesterday some fans near us were constantly berating Hoole for not crossing the ball, why don’t people see thats what he’s told to do, go backwards or sideways if the opening isn’t there? I really can’t believe that people are not noticing that. That’s our identity under JB. But what was very evident yesterday was that by playing a centre half at left back we didn’t have any outlet down that side, which Gordon would have given us. I can see why we played Gibson there, because gordon isn’t that good defensively in the air or at defending the back post and Wycombe are purely a long ball team. Meanwhile Hoole started solidly enough but eventually got found out defensively again down that side and they had a lot of joy down there. Personally I think gordon should have come on later in the game when we went to back 3 at the back, just to give us an outlet down that side. I also prefer gibbons over hoole, he’s a much better defender IMO and even though Hoole had a decent second half against Charlton, gibbons had a great game in the week v MK Don’s and has much more know how about him as a defender. I actually couldn’t work out what we were supposed to be playing as the game wore on. Whilst defeat isn’t the end of the world, it’s disappointing because Wycombe (whilst good at what they do) are very limited and I felt that we had the mobility up front to cause them problems. It’s just a pity a couple of defensive slips down out right cost us. |
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trueblur4u
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Post by trueblur4u on Dec 27, 2022 14:21:23 GMT
All this possession-type football is all well and good, but more often than not, Rovers' lose to teams playing directly. Wycombe won promotion to the Championship with this style of football!
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Post by dudelebowski on Dec 27, 2022 14:24:46 GMT
All this possession-type football is all well and good, but more often than not, Rovers' lose to teams playing directly. Wycombe won promotion to the Championship with this style of football! In a season where they finished 9th? So it was effective in a 3 game shootout. They ain’t going anywhere this year. |
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