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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 14:52:55 GMT
Here’s a mischievous idea that would show some balls (ie actually cost some f**king money) subsidise clubs to wear an anti-racism slogan on their shirts instead of a sponsor for a season. Or perhaps just the away kit to make it more cost efficient. You would then see fans buying the replica shirts and propagating the message further. This is the real challenge for the FA because anything that actually costs them money (even though the upper echelons are awash with the stuff) is likely to be opposed vehemently. We’ll soon see where the FA stands if fans apply pressure for measures that will hit them where it hurts them most.
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Post by Gassy on Dec 7, 2020 15:27:20 GMT
Exactly, so the point I am saying is that we do not have equality of opportunity. Opportunity is not equally distributed, thank you for backing up my point. Those statistics you're asking for are impossible to prove for either argument, I can flip it to say do you know how many white people applied to be a football manager? It doesn't necessarily make either of our points correct. The question we should be asking is why don't we have enough black people in positions of power, rather than trying suggest that it's not a problem. Why do you think we don't have enough black people in positions of power? Can you show me the other areas where black people are over represented? Then to further that point once you've shown it, what your opinion is on why they're over represented there. What are you on about? There is opportunity. What leads you to say there isn't? You could ask me about White managers, and my answer would be the same. Look at facts and data to substantiate your claim. "Why don't we have ENOUGH Black people in positions of power? What do you mean by enough? Is 1 enough? 2? 10? 20? 100? What? How many would enough mean to you? That's the thing with your "Quota" mode of thinking. Other areas where Black people are over represented? Sure. University's and Higher Education for one, The Premier League and Football League, Professional Boxing, Professional Athletics, especially Track & Field. We can go further afield if you want, The NBA is literally 95% Black, how many other origins are in the 100m final in the Olympics? Lucky if you get 1 other. Like I said equality of opportunity does not mean equal outcome. Can you try to actually debate the issue without putting words into other people's mouths please? If society was truly equal, then we'd see roughly the figures would reflect that. If it's 80% white in the UK, then we'd see that in positions of leadership. But do we? No. That is a fact. I don't believe in quotas, nor have I ever suggested that I do. Enough would represent the 80% of white people, which it doesn't. Why do you think that is? I'm glad you've mentioned education, because it actually backs up my point further. If you look at the statistics, white attendees take up roughly 80% of university places, in the last 10 years it has fallen from 81% to 77%. If black people are overrepresented in higher education, why do we not see those figures transcend into positions of power? Why is it that from 80% of white people attending education, 96% of them actually go into leadership? When it comes to playing sports, it is in a different field to leadership and positions of power, unless you're suggesting black people are worse at leadership.. (see, I can put things in people's mouth too). But of course, I'm sure you're not. You've singled handedly managed to pick 557 premier league players, 1,500 EFL players, 450 NBA players & 10 sprinters as a representative of the entire black population of the UK. Do you honestly think that is a fair reflection? What % of black people in the UK are EFL, Prem or Olympic sprinters? 0.1% if you're lucky? Hardly a fair representation. But you're right, equality of opportunity doesn't mean equal outcome, but statistically speaking it should be closer in the general population. |
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 7, 2020 15:57:24 GMT
What are you on about? There is opportunity. What leads you to say there isn't? You could ask me about White managers, and my answer would be the same. Look at facts and data to substantiate your claim. "Why don't we have ENOUGH Black people in positions of power? What do you mean by enough? Is 1 enough? 2? 10? 20? 100? What? How many would enough mean to you? That's the thing with your "Quota" mode of thinking. Other areas where Black people are over represented? Sure. University's and Higher Education for one, The Premier League and Football League, Professional Boxing, Professional Athletics, especially Track & Field. We can go further afield if you want, The NBA is literally 95% Black, how many other origins are in the 100m final in the Olympics? Lucky if you get 1 other. Like I said equality of opportunity does not mean equal outcome. Can you try to actually debate the issue without putting words into other people's mouths please? If society was truly equal, then we'd see roughly the figures would reflect that. If it's 80% white in the UK, then we'd see that in positions of leadership. But do we? No. That is a fact. I don't believe in quotas, nor have I ever suggested that I do. Enough would represent the 80% of white people, which it doesn't. Why do you think that is? I'm glad you've mentioned education, because it actually backs up my point further. If you look at the statistics, white attendees take up roughly 80% of university places, in the last 10 years it has fallen from 81% to 77%. If black people are overrepresented in higher education, why do we not see those figures transcend into positions of power? Why is it that from 80% of white people attending education, 96% of them actually go into leadership? When it comes to playing sports, it is in a different field to leadership and positions of power, unless you're suggesting black people are worse at leadership.. (see, I can put things in people's mouth too). But of course, I'm sure you're not. You've singled handedly managed to pick 557 premier league players, 1,500 EFL players, 450 NBA players & 10 sprinters as a representative of the entire black population of the UK. Do you honestly think that is a fair reflection? What % of black people in the UK are EFL, Prem or Olympic sprinters? 0.1% if you're lucky? Hardly a fair representation. But you're right, equality of opportunity doesn't mean equal outcome, but statistically speaking it should be closer in the general population. How am I putting words in your mouth? All I've done is answer your questions. Again we have to look at facts and data at to what the reason is, just because 10% of the British population is Black,it doesnt mean that 10% of positions of power will be black as well. Its not how it works. They're given the opportunity, again it doesn't mean the same outcome everytime. It shouldn't be a Black & White thing anyway, positions of power in this country have always been the super rich, Oxbridge Elite. How many normal, working class people full stop ever get into a position of power? It's more to do with class than race. As I said on the George Floyd thread as well if it was to do with just looking at numbers then Whites would surely be the top of everything, but they're not, both here and the US, Chinese and Eastern Asians topple everybody when it comes to Median income, education,they trounce everybody in pretty much every sector. Its not as simple as just saying theres this number of minorities, so it must mean they should have this many doing this, this many doing that or whatever. It just doesn't work like that. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 15:57:42 GMT
What are you on about? There is opportunity. What leads you to say there isn't? You could ask me about White managers, and my answer would be the same. Look at facts and data to substantiate your claim. "Why don't we have ENOUGH Black people in positions of power? What do you mean by enough? Is 1 enough? 2? 10? 20? 100? What? How many would enough mean to you? That's the thing with your "Quota" mode of thinking. Other areas where Black people are over represented? Sure. University's and Higher Education for one, The Premier League and Football League, Professional Boxing, Professional Athletics, especially Track & Field. We can go further afield if you want, The NBA is literally 95% Black, how many other origins are in the 100m final in the Olympics? Lucky if you get 1 other. Like I said equality of opportunity does not mean equal outcome. Can you try to actually debate the issue without putting words into other people's mouths please? If society was truly equal, then we'd see roughly the figures would reflect that. If it's 80% white in the UK, then we'd see that in positions of leadership. But do we? No. That is a fact. I don't believe in quotas, nor have I ever suggested that I do. Enough would represent the 80% of white people, which it doesn't. Why do you think that is? I'm glad you've mentioned education, because it actually backs up my point further. If you look at the statistics, white attendees take up roughly 80% of university places, in the last 10 years it has fallen from 81% to 77%. If black people are overrepresented in higher education, why do we not see those figures transcend into positions of power? Why is it that from 80% of white people attending education, 96% of them actually go into leadership? When it comes to playing sports, it is in a different field to leadership and positions of power, unless you're suggesting black people are worse at leadership.. (see, I can put things in people's mouth too). But of course, I'm sure you're not. You've singled handedly managed to pick 557 premier league players, 1,500 EFL players, 450 NBA players & 10 sprinters as a representative of the entire black population of the UK. Do you honestly think that is a fair reflection? What % of black people in the UK are EFL, Prem or Olympic sprinters? 0.1% if you're lucky? Hardly a fair representation. But you're right, equality of opportunity doesn't mean equal outcome, but statistically speaking it should be closer in the general population. I’m not going to argue with their representation within the structures of power, just make the observation that this isn’t necessarily just a black issue though. Just taking politics as an example iirc private schools are massively over-represented at MP level. No-one really cares about that though when arguing about representation, it’s always couched as black VS white. For me (to use a very awful phrase for brevity) we should be trying to “level up” everyone when it comes to representation at the top tiers of society. Poor white people have been locked out too, not to the same degree granted but the blacks and whites who don’t come from a background of privilege need to have more confidence that they can get influential jobs on their own ability and merit and not as a product of who they know or what colour their tie was. I guess what I’m trying to say is that in terms of jobs that steer the direction of the country the glass ceiling is not strictly a race issue- it’s a class one. |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 7, 2020 16:17:12 GMT
Can you try to actually debate the issue without putting words into other people's mouths please? If society was truly equal, then we'd see roughly the figures would reflect that. If it's 80% white in the UK, then we'd see that in positions of leadership. But do we? No. That is a fact. I don't believe in quotas, nor have I ever suggested that I do. Enough would represent the 80% of white people, which it doesn't. Why do you think that is? I'm glad you've mentioned education, because it actually backs up my point further. If you look at the statistics, white attendees take up roughly 80% of university places, in the last 10 years it has fallen from 81% to 77%. If black people are overrepresented in higher education, why do we not see those figures transcend into positions of power? Why is it that from 80% of white people attending education, 96% of them actually go into leadership? When it comes to playing sports, it is in a different field to leadership and positions of power, unless you're suggesting black people are worse at leadership.. (see, I can put things in people's mouth too). But of course, I'm sure you're not. You've singled handedly managed to pick 557 premier league players, 1,500 EFL players, 450 NBA players & 10 sprinters as a representative of the entire black population of the UK. Do you honestly think that is a fair reflection? What % of black people in the UK are EFL, Prem or Olympic sprinters? 0.1% if you're lucky? Hardly a fair representation. But you're right, equality of opportunity doesn't mean equal outcome, but statistically speaking it should be closer in the general population. How am I putting words in your mouth? All I've done is answer your questions. Again we have to look at facts and data at to what the reason is, just because 10% of the British population is Black,it doesnt mean that 10% of positions of power will be black as well. Its not how it works. They're given the opportunity, again it doesn't mean the same outcome everytime. It shouldn't be a Black & White thing anyway, positions of power in this country have always been the super rich, Oxbridge Elite. How many normal, working class people full stop ever get into a position of power? It's more to do with class than race. As I said on the George Floyd thread as well if it was to do with just looking at numbers then Whites would surely be the top of everything, but they're not, both here and the US, Chinese and Eastern Asians topple everybody when it comes to Median income, education,they trounce everybody in pretty much every sector. Its not as simple as just saying theres this number of minorities, so it must mean they should have this many doing this, this many doing that or whatever. It just doesn't work like that. "That's the thing with your "Quota" mode of thinking." - As I said, I haven't mentioned anything about quotas, nor have I suggested I believe in quotas. So how does it work then? Can you educate us on the statistical outcome? As I said, if it was equal we'd see numbers roughly reflected (with a small +/-), but we're nowhere near it. Statistically speaking it looks as though black people are given the chance of education (as much as the rest of the country are) which is great, but we obviously still have a problem in transitioning education into work experience. I think equality of opportunity breaks down to more than just education tbh, we've been discussing it with one paint brush for someone's entire life. But IMO equality of opportunity should be at each stage; education, job offers, management, leadership, BoD etc. At some point, we lose that equality of opportunity, I think. But you're right, it shouldn't be about Black & White - but I think generally the statistics still back up the points I've made. I do agree with you (and @gas365) that actually we have a massive class problem on our hands and realistically, always have done. I believe though that class and being black (or not white) are correlated though (without checking figures/statistics) - so whilst we have a class issue, it's not the same issue. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 16:17:16 GMT
When players first started taking the knee, I found it to be both emotive and thought provoking. However, as it continued over many months the effect was diluted, and now, to me, it's just part of the matchday ritual, like players shaking hands, the toss of the coin etc - it doesn't particularly register.
I'd prefer to see clubs doing more work with the disadvantaged sections of the community (yes, I know that we do loads already), but if players care that much they can give up a bit more of their free time. Get something different on the pitch, penalty shoot-outs featuring groups that the club are working with, with somebody on the mic talking about how the club has been involved. I'd pay much more attention to that, and am much more interested in being informed about the steps the club are taking to address inequality, than seeing a 20 second gesture repeated ad infinitum.
Apologies if that makes me a racist.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 16:26:48 GMT
How am I putting words in your mouth? All I've done is answer your questions. Again we have to look at facts and data at to what the reason is, just because 10% of the British population is Black,it doesnt mean that 10% of positions of power will be black as well. Its not how it works. They're given the opportunity, again it doesn't mean the same outcome everytime. It shouldn't be a Black & White thing anyway, positions of power in this country have always been the super rich, Oxbridge Elite. How many normal, working class people full stop ever get into a position of power? It's more to do with class than race. As I said on the George Floyd thread as well if it was to do with just looking at numbers then Whites would surely be the top of everything, but they're not, both here and the US, Chinese and Eastern Asians topple everybody when it comes to Median income, education,they trounce everybody in pretty much every sector. Its not as simple as just saying theres this number of minorities, so it must mean they should have this many doing this, this many doing that or whatever. It just doesn't work like that. "That's the thing with your "Quota" mode of thinking." - As I said, I haven't mentioned anything about quotas, nor have I suggested I believe in quotas. So how does it work then? Can you educate us on the statistical outcome? As I said, if it was equal we'd see numbers roughly reflected (with a small +/-), but we're nowhere near it. Statistically speaking it looks as though black people are given the chance of education (as much as the rest of the country are) which is great, but we obviously still have a problem in transitioning education into work experience. I think equality of opportunity breaks down to more than just education tbh, we've been discussing it with one paint brush for someone's entire life. But IMO equality of opportunity should be at each stage; education, job offers, management, leadership, BoD etc. At some point, we lose that equality of opportunity, I think. But you're right, it shouldn't be about Black & White - but I think generally the statistics still back up the points I've made. I do agree with you (and @gas365) that actually we have a massive class problem on our hands and realistically, always have done. I believe though that class and being black (or not white) are correlated though (without checking figures/statistics) - so whilst we have a class issue, it's not the same issue. Class and race are tightly entwined for me, I feel fairly confident coming out with a bit of a guess that black people would be shown to be over-represented amongst the lowest earners in the country. White and black in that respect have the issue of low wages and lack of social mobility as a common problem. The whites can, most likely, probably get the lowest paid jobs a bit easier than black people. It’s like winning the old tallest dwarf competition again though let’s be fair. |
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Post by yattongas on Dec 7, 2020 16:27:37 GMT
When players first started taking the knee, I found it to be both emotive and thought provoking. However, as it continued over many months the effect was diluted, and now, to me, it's just part of the matchday ritual, like players shaking hands, the toss of the coin etc - it doesn't particularly register. I'd prefer to see clubs doing more work with the disadvantaged sections of the community (yes, I know that we do loads already), but if players care that much they can give up a bit more of their free time. Get something different on the pitch, penalty shoot-outs featuring groups that the club are working with, with somebody on the mic talking about how the club has been involved. I'd pay much more attention to that, and am much more interested in being informed about the steps the club are taking to address inequality, than seeing a 20 second gesture repeated ad infinitum. Apologies if that makes me a racist. Nothing wrong with thinking it’s overrun a bit and can’t go on for ever . Milwall and the other clubs fans who booed it weren’t doing it because they were bored of it , or because of Marxists or other conflated nonsense. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 16:28:35 GMT
When players first started taking the knee, I found it to be both emotive and thought provoking. However, as it continued over many months the effect was diluted, and now, to me, it's just part of the matchday ritual, like players shaking hands, the toss of the coin etc - it doesn't particularly register. I'd prefer to see clubs doing more work with the disadvantaged sections of the community (yes, I know that we do loads already), but if players care that much they can give up a bit more of their free time. Get something different on the pitch, penalty shoot-outs featuring groups that the club are working with, with somebody on the mic talking about how the club has been involved. I'd pay much more attention to that, and am much more interested in being informed about the steps the club are taking to address inequality, than seeing a 20 second gesture repeated ad infinitum. Apologies if that makes me a racist. This is a great idea, because it requires actual investment from the players who want to raise awareness. Bending a knee for 20 seconds is easy and anyone can do it, costs nothing. Let’s see football lead by example using time and/or money. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 16:33:57 GMT
When players first started taking the knee, I found it to be both emotive and thought provoking. However, as it continued over many months the effect was diluted, and now, to me, it's just part of the matchday ritual, like players shaking hands, the toss of the coin etc - it doesn't particularly register. I'd prefer to see clubs doing more work with the disadvantaged sections of the community (yes, I know that we do loads already), but if players care that much they can give up a bit more of their free time. Get something different on the pitch, penalty shoot-outs featuring groups that the club are working with, with somebody on the mic talking about how the club has been involved. I'd pay much more attention to that, and am much more interested in being informed about the steps the club are taking to address inequality, than seeing a 20 second gesture repeated ad infinitum. Apologies if that makes me a racist. Unfortunately efforts to do those things you have suggested to address racism didn't seem to work. Hence the direct action being taken. Maybe they could do a raffle to end racism? That would be better than a global signal by all players? Apologies, I couldn't help myself. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 16:35:06 GMT
When players first started taking the knee, I found it to be both emotive and thought provoking. However, as it continued over many months the effect was diluted, and now, to me, it's just part of the matchday ritual, like players shaking hands, the toss of the coin etc - it doesn't particularly register. I'd prefer to see clubs doing more work with the disadvantaged sections of the community (yes, I know that we do loads already), but if players care that much they can give up a bit more of their free time. Get something different on the pitch, penalty shoot-outs featuring groups that the club are working with, with somebody on the mic talking about how the club has been involved. I'd pay much more attention to that, and am much more interested in being informed about the steps the club are taking to address inequality, than seeing a 20 second gesture repeated ad infinitum. Apologies if that makes me a racist. This is a great idea, because it requires actual investment from the players who want to raise awareness. Bending a knee for 20 seconds is easy and anyone can do it, costs nothing. Let’s see football lead by example using time and/or money. Omg this thread is absolute gold. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 16:38:12 GMT
Well, at least debate is being had... It is truly tedius but not bad for a footy forum.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 16:47:00 GMT
Well, at least debate is being had... It is truly tedius but not bad for a footy forum. Keen to contribute with anything constructive and insightful then Grover? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 17:13:29 GMT
When players first started taking the knee, I found it to be both emotive and thought provoking. However, as it continued over many months the effect was diluted, and now, to me, it's just part of the matchday ritual, like players shaking hands, the toss of the coin etc - it doesn't particularly register. I'd prefer to see clubs doing more work with the disadvantaged sections of the community (yes, I know that we do loads already), but if players care that much they can give up a bit more of their free time. Get something different on the pitch, penalty shoot-outs featuring groups that the club are working with, with somebody on the mic talking about how the club has been involved. I'd pay much more attention to that, and am much more interested in being informed about the steps the club are taking to address inequality, than seeing a 20 second gesture repeated ad infinitum. Apologies if that makes me a racist. Unfortunately efforts to do those things you have suggested to address racism didn't seem to work. Hence the direct action being taken. Maybe they could do a raffle to end racism? That would be better than a global signal by all players? Apologies, I couldn't help myself. “Direct action” - gimme a break  “It’s just printing T-shirts” - Dion Dublin |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 17:21:17 GMT
Well, at least debate is being had... It is truly tedius but not bad for a footy forum. Keen to contribute with anything constructive and insightful then Grover? I need to take a lie down first mate, give me about 5 years. |
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Post by e4bandrobinstubbs on Dec 7, 2020 17:25:09 GMT
I'm surprised you asked. Wouldn't you also like to know my skin colour, religion, wealth, sexual orientation, attitude to the opposite sex (if there is such a thing !) ? Could be lots of ammunition there.  No, just your age. Why ? |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 7, 2020 17:29:50 GMT
"That's the thing with your "Quota" mode of thinking." - As I said, I haven't mentioned anything about quotas, nor have I suggested I believe in quotas. So how does it work then? Can you educate us on the statistical outcome? As I said, if it was equal we'd see numbers roughly reflected (with a small +/-), but we're nowhere near it. Statistically speaking it looks as though black people are given the chance of education (as much as the rest of the country are) which is great, but we obviously still have a problem in transitioning education into work experience. I think equality of opportunity breaks down to more than just education tbh, we've been discussing it with one paint brush for someone's entire life. But IMO equality of opportunity should be at each stage; education, job offers, management, leadership, BoD etc. At some point, we lose that equality of opportunity, I think. But you're right, it shouldn't be about Black & White - but I think generally the statistics still back up the points I've made. I do agree with you (and @gas365 ) that actually we have a massive class problem on our hands and realistically, always have done. I believe though that class and being black (or not white) are correlated though (without checking figures/statistics) - so whilst we have a class issue, it's not the same issue. Class and race are tightly entwined for me, I feel fairly confident coming out with a bit of a guess that black people would be shown to be over-represented amongst the lowest earners in the country. White and black in that respect have the issue of low wages and lack of social mobility as a common problem. The whites can, most likely, probably get the lowest paid jobs a bit easier than black people. It’s like winning the old tallest dwarf competition again though let’s be fair. I think it's a similar issue for sure. The question I think needs answering is (without also looking at the statistics), why are black people over represented in the lowest earners? |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 7, 2020 17:40:19 GMT
When players first started taking the knee, I found it to be both emotive and thought provoking. However, as it continued over many months the effect was diluted, and now, to me, it's just part of the matchday ritual, like players shaking hands, the toss of the coin etc - it doesn't particularly register. I'd prefer to see clubs doing more work with the disadvantaged sections of the community (yes, I know that we do loads already), but if players care that much they can give up a bit more of their free time. Get something different on the pitch, penalty shoot-outs featuring groups that the club are working with, with somebody on the mic talking about how the club has been involved. I'd pay much more attention to that, and am much more interested in being informed about the steps the club are taking to address inequality, than seeing a 20 second gesture repeated ad infinitum. Apologies if that makes me a racist. I think you make some good points, Tilly. Probably it has worn down a bit now and I don't think anyone would disagree that clubs and players could/should be doing more. Especially the players. 365 and I were discussing a while ago the example of Rashford and what a player can do if they put their mind to it. Imagine if just 1% of PL players did what Rashford has done over the last few months. But unfortunately, this doesn't happen enough. We all know that the Millwall fans weren't booing because they're bored of people taking the knee - would you boo it? People here glorify the kick it out campaign as if it had worked wonders, did it? Pretty sure most of us just remember the t-shirts and it pretty much became like taking the knee is now, ignored. The part I find interesting is when people pick specific parts of BLM, and choose that to rubbish the entire campaign. I'm pretty sure every person on this thread has at least 1 thing they don't like about the party they voted for at the last election. But we all still voted for them, because we saw the bigger picture of what we believed to be right. So when I see people using anti-capitalism as a bat to bash the fact that we still have racism in football and they actively speak out against supporting players making a token gesture, it makes you wonder if it's really the gesture, or something else. |
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Post by axegas on Dec 7, 2020 17:48:07 GMT
When players first started taking the knee, I found it to be both emotive and thought provoking. However, as it continued over many months the effect was diluted, and now, to me, it's just part of the matchday ritual, like players shaking hands, the toss of the coin etc - it doesn't particularly register. I'd prefer to see clubs doing more work with the disadvantaged sections of the community (yes, I know that we do loads already), but if players care that much they can give up a bit more of their free time. Get something different on the pitch, penalty shoot-outs featuring groups that the club are working with, with somebody on the mic talking about how the club has been involved. I'd pay much more attention to that, and am much more interested in being informed about the steps the club are taking to address inequality, than seeing a 20 second gesture repeated ad infinitum. Apologies if that makes me a racist. Absolutely this, I think the gesture has become tired from over use and more meaningful things could be done to support equality by players, clubs and supporters going forward. Doesn’t excuse the people booing it, not by a long shot, but I do think the EFL and the FA now need to take stock and implement more longer lasting policies to ensure all forms of discrimination are removed from the game. We’re lucky that as a club Rovers do some fantastic things for it’s community, from supporting the North Bristol Food bank to all the great things Adam Tutton and the community trust get up to. Long may it continue. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 17:48:55 GMT
Class and race are tightly entwined for me, I feel fairly confident coming out with a bit of a guess that black people would be shown to be over-represented amongst the lowest earners in the country. White and black in that respect have the issue of low wages and lack of social mobility as a common problem. The whites can, most likely, probably get the lowest paid jobs a bit easier than black people. It’s like winning the old tallest dwarf competition again though let’s be fair. I think it's a similar issue for sure. The question I think needs answering is (without also looking at the statistics), why are black people over represented in the lowest earners? Opportunity undoubtedly, but we have to reference the possibility of cultural issues too - there is evidence that Indian and Chinese manage to climb into reasonable income brackets. Also black kids are outnperforming white counterparts in school at the moment so there might be a sea change in the next decade in terms of who makes up the poorest in society. But this is probably getting away from football and back into some of the debates from the George Floyd thread. |
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