Taking of the Knee

[Hugo the Elder]

Dec 5, 2020 20:39:58 GMT newmarketgas said:

Dec 5, 2020 20:30:27 GMT Hugo the Elder said:

Is hopping symbolic of historical oppression then?

Must have missed that.

Now you are admitting the whole take the knee thing is about everyone looking up to BLM as they submit to them ?
You are being obtuse with your choice of words, I said submission you changed it to oppression.

One party was offering their submission to their oppressors.

That everyone, be they black or white mimic this is why they are taking the knee.

Which I'm sure you already knew, yet you chose to suggest hopping.

And you accuse me of being obtuse??

Blimey.

It really shouldn't be such hard work to show people that symbolically standing with black people because they are still not treated equally isnt a bad thing.

[newmarketgas]

I know you are a right on Lefty and I am a right on Righty, You can kneel all you like, I will not, I will stand with and for any human.
Not kneel, it will not well and will cause more trouble than help, but that is the BLM (movement) reason for choosing the knee.
Night night.

[gashead1981]

Dec 5, 2020 20:00:17 GMT newmarketgas said:

No Country is perfect but this is one of the better ones in my opinion, BLM as a movement is dangerous and nobody needs to take the knee, We just need to keep work together, all the best things take time and last a lot longer.
Enjoy todays win and have a great Weekend.

Spoken like a true all lives matter peddler.

The problem is is that racism is so deeply ingrained worldwide that working together is impossible. Not everyone can do it. Sadly the sole reason for it not happening sometimes is because they can’t see past the colour of someone’s skin, their culture, nationality or sexuality.

Whilst I don’t agree with some of the actions of the BLM movement, what I do fundamentally agree with is that black lives don’t matter to some people in offices of power and they will still discriminate.

The fact it’s taken the course of action it has just for people to recognise it, talk about it and show some kind of solidarity shows it was a problem to begin with, and it’s certainly showing that some people still refuse to belive it’s a problem.

[Hugo the Elder]

Dec 5, 2020 21:05:22 GMT newmarketgas said:

I know you are a right on Lefty and I am a right on Righty, You can kneel all you like, I will not, I will stand with and for any human.
Not kneel, it will not well and will cause more trouble than help, but that is the BLM (movement) reason for choosing the knee.
Night night.

I'm not a lefty.

I know you are a righty.

And heaven forbid you put yourself in the position of the oppressed, even symbolically.

[Somersetgas]

Dec 5, 2020 21:05:22 GMT newmarketgas said:

I know you are a right on Lefty and I am a right on Righty, You can kneel all you like, I will not, I will stand with and for any human.
Not kneel, it will not well and will cause more trouble than help, but that is the BLM (movement) reason for choosing the knee.
Night night.

I’m an open lefty but I don’t push my views on people.

[Dirt Dogg]

Dec 5, 2020 19:20:24 GMT newmarketgas said:

What Millwall fans did was only showing the dislike of BLM the movement, they are Marxist ( they admit this ) they encourage violence, burning flags, pulling down statues and defacing property.
BLM has very little to do with Black people but everything to do with anarchy.
Taking the knee was a BLM idea and a very bad idea at that.

Oh ffs, get a grip,

[BishopstonBRFC]

Dec 5, 2020 20:22:33 GMT ineedgas said:

Dec 5, 2020 20:06:12 GMT Hugo the Elder said:

Black lives matter is also a statement of fact.

Can you explain what the fact is about blm
And don't just say I don't understand about you ideology
Do you take the knee before you start work
I know I don't

If I took the knee before work no one would notice as I'm not remotely in the public eye.

[BishopstonBRFC]

Dec 5, 2020 21:05:22 GMT newmarketgas said:

I know you are a right on Lefty and I am a right on Righty, You can kneel all you like, I will not, I will stand with and for any human.
Not kneel, it will not well and will cause more trouble than help, but that is the BLM (movement) reason for choosing the knee.
Night night.

Bore of with your "lefty" nonsense. It's the kind of sh** cretins like Trump use as a deflecting tactic. To be honest if "lefty" means someone who stands up against racism then guilty as charged.

[stuartcampbell]

Dec 5, 2020 19:20:24 GMT newmarketgas said:

What Millwall fans did was only showing the dislike of BLM the movement, they are Marxist ( they admit this ) they encourage violence, burning flags, pulling down statues and defacing property.
BLM has very little to do with Black people but everything to do with anarchy.
Taking the knee was a BLM idea and a very bad idea at that.

Don't know how many times I need to ask this, but why is a movement "being Marxist." Intrinsically bad? First of all, the movement itself is not Marxist. It is true that the founders of Black Lives Matter have said that they are "trained Marxists," however, they also said they "don't want to be seen as the vanguards of this movement." Although founders in practicality, they hardly see themselves as the leaders of such a political movement.

Secondly, I would argue that most rational people are Marxists, in some way shape or form. Let's put it this way: to be Marxist, you don't inherently have to be a communist or socialist. Now, it is true Marx did advocate for the transitionary phase to communism from capitalism through socialism, however, when you're talking about political ideologies; religious beliefs, points of view: you don't have to agree with every single point someone makes to be that a part of that ideology. Marx's critiques of capitalism were undeniably accurate, I don't think I've ever seen anyone contest that. Where people have an issue is where it comes to whether socialism/communism is a truly better ideological system; which they don't believe to be the case, perhaps due to past implementations of this' failures, but also because, at least to an extent; through things like the Red Scare and mass propaganda campaigns we as a society have been led to believe like a hivemind on that point. But there is a reason ideologies like Social Democracy exist, they don't advocate for mass revolution, violence, burning flags, pulling down statues and defacing property. They believe that capitalism is not beyond reform and with things like government nationalisation of certain branches of society (like healthcare, railways etc). And limiting the ability of big business to exploit ordinary people, that's still Marxism. It's just not as "Marxist" as someone who would advocate for the complete overthrowal of such a system.

But let's say they do advocate for the complete overthrowal of the system. You say, completely falsely, that they encourage violence, burn flags, pull down statues and deface property. It's strange to me that a fellow football fan cannot recognise that the movement itself doesn't stand or idolise or condone almost any of these things, especially encouraging violence; burning flags is a First Amendment right. But you refer specifically to the leaders when you call them Marxists, but then don't refer to the leaders in terms of other contexts. The reason this is weird is because there are many, many football fans that are racist. Yet if I accused you of being racist for simply being a football fan, that'd be absurd.

Also, the Marxist point is LITERALLY IRRELEVANT. Like completely, Martin Luther King Jr was also a profound, outspoken Marxist. He was also the leader of a political movement challenging racism in society. It's so irritating that the exact same arguments are unironically used today against such a political, social movement that were used against MLK and the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s. 

So yeah, stop being a and support this please. Your arguments against it are truly woeful. 

[stuartcampbell]

Dec 5, 2020 22:59:11 GMT BishopstonBRFC said:

Dec 5, 2020 21:05:22 GMT newmarketgas said:

I know you are a right on Lefty and I am a right on Righty, You can kneel all you like, I will not, I will stand with and for any human.
Not kneel, it will not well and will cause more trouble than help, but that is the BLM (movement) reason for choosing the knee.
Night night.

Bore of with your "lefty" nonsense. It's the kind of sh** cretins like Trump use as a deflecting tactic. To be honest if "lefty" means someone who stands up against racism then guilty as charged.

There's a reason why Biden has masses more support in this country that morons like Trump do. Trump is much more extreme right-wing than the Conservative Party; it's why many Republicans and many Conservative MPs endorsed Biden. The only people who back Trump are the lowest of the low; the likes of Ben Bradley, Michael Gove etc. Modern day-conservatism doesn't support Trump, neither does free-market capitalism. Trump would get washed in this country in any election if he went up against the Democrats. Many arguments I see people make in America; on abortion, on healthcare, on climate change, are arguments that the majority of the right in this country have conceded. So yeah, the majority of sensible normal people "lefty or not" will support the BLM movement. They may not support all of its goals, which I find hysterical because they think to support a movement you have to support all of its proposals, I don't even do that! 

[yattongas]

Quick scan..... think we know who the racists are lads 👍

[yattongas]

Dec 5, 2020 20:15:39 GMT pirate said:

"Trained Marxists" (says BLM co-founder Patrisse Cullors) and funded by George Soros and his Open Society Foundations to the tune of £33 million. Millwall and West Ham fans have every right to boo this engineered political agenda.

Hi Wes 😀

[stuartcampbell]

Dec 5, 2020 20:00:17 GMT newmarketgas said:

No Country is perfect but this is one of the better ones in my opinion, BLM as a movement is dangerous and nobody needs to take the knee, We just need to keep work together, all the best things take time and last a lot longer.
Enjoy todays win and have a great Weekend.

The least racist is still racist. You couple have made this argument during Jim Crow "oh well, other nations still have slavery so feel grateful!" It's nonsense.

[yattongas]

It’s Dam embarrassing to read some of this racist supporting crap . Truly shameful . Absolute scumbags .

[Dirt Dogg]

Dec 5, 2020 23:23:51 GMT stuartcampbell said:

Dec 5, 2020 19:20:24 GMT newmarketgas said:

What Millwall fans did was only showing the dislike of BLM the movement, they are Marxist ( they admit this ) they encourage violence, burning flags, pulling down statues and defacing property.
BLM has very little to do with Black people but everything to do with anarchy.
Taking the knee was a BLM idea and a very bad idea at that.

Don't know how many times I need to ask this, but why is a movement "being Marxist." Intrinsically bad? First of all, the movement itself is not Marxist. It is true that the founders of Black Lives Matter have said that they are "trained Marxists," however, they also said they "don't want to be seen as the vanguards of this movement." Although founders in practicality, they hardly see themselves as the leaders of such a political movement.

Secondly, I would argue that most rational people are Marxists, in some way shape or form. Let's put it this way: to be Marxist, you don't inherently have to be a communist or socialist. Now, it is true Marx did advocate for the transitionary phase to communism from capitalism through socialism, however, when you're talking about political ideologies; religious beliefs, points of view: you don't have to agree with every single point someone makes to be that a part of that ideology. Marx's critiques of capitalism were undeniably accurate, I don't think I've ever seen anyone contest that. Where people have an issue is where it comes to whether socialism/communism is a truly better ideological system; which they don't believe to be the case, perhaps due to past implementations of this' failures, but also because, at least to an extent; through things like the Red Scare and mass propaganda campaigns we as a society have been led to believe like a hivemind on that point. But there is a reason ideologies like Social Democracy exist, they don't advocate for mass revolution, violence, burning flags, pulling down statues and defacing property. They believe that capitalism is not beyond reform and with things like government nationalisation of certain branches of society (like healthcare, railways etc). And limiting the ability of big business to exploit ordinary people, that's still Marxism. It's just not as "Marxist" as someone who would advocate for the complete overthrowal of such a system.

But let's say they do advocate for the complete overthrowal of the system. You say, completely falsely, that they encourage violence, burn flags, pull down statues and deface property. It's strange to me that a fellow football fan cannot recognise that the movement itself doesn't stand or idolise or condone almost any of these things, especially encouraging violence; burning flags is a First Amendment right. But you refer specifically to the leaders when you call them Marxists, but then don't refer to the leaders in terms of other contexts. The reason this is weird is because there are many, many football fans that are racist. Yet if I accused you of being racist for simply being a football fan, that'd be absurd.

Also, the Marxist point is LITERALLY IRRELEVANT. Like completely, Martin Luther King Jr was also a profound, outspoken Marxist. He was also the leader of a political movement challenging racism in society. It's so irritating that the exact same arguments are unironically used today against such a political, social movement that were used against MLK and the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s. 

So yeah, stop being a and support this please. Your arguments against it are truly woeful. 

Great post 👏

[yattongas]

Just call out these racist fuckers for what they are . The quicker we rid ourselves of these scumbags the better.

[pirate]

“Is it a misfortune that magnificent California was seized from the lazy Mexicans who did not know what to do with it?” - Karl Marx

"It is now completely clear to me that he, as is proved by his cranial formation and his hair, descends from the Negroes who had joined Moses’ exodus from Egypt, assuming that his mother or grandmother on the paternal side had not interbred with a ni**er. Now this union of Judaism and Germanism with a basic Negro substance must produce a peculiar product. The pushiness of the fellow is also ni**er-like. - Karl Marx, letter to Engels, in reference to his political competitor Ferdinand Lassalle.

[althepirate]

Dec 5, 2020 23:23:51 GMT stuartcampbell said:

Dec 5, 2020 19:20:24 GMT newmarketgas said:

What Millwall fans did was only showing the dislike of BLM the movement, they are Marxist ( they admit this ) they encourage violence, burning flags, pulling down statues and defacing property.
BLM has very little to do with Black people but everything to do with anarchy.
Taking the knee was a BLM idea and a very bad idea at that.

Don't know how many times I need to ask this, but why is a movement "being Marxist." Intrinsically bad? First of all, the movement itself is not Marxist. It is true that the founders of Black Lives Matter have said that they are "trained Marxists," however, they also said they "don't want to be seen as the vanguards of this movement." Although founders in practicality, they hardly see themselves as the leaders of such a political movement.

Secondly, I would argue that most rational people are Marxists, in some way shape or form. Let's put it this way: to be Marxist, you don't inherently have to be a communist or socialist. Now, it is true Marx did advocate for the transitionary phase to communism from capitalism through socialism, however, when you're talking about political ideologies; religious beliefs, points of view: you don't have to agree with every single point someone makes to be that a part of that ideology. Marx's critiques of capitalism were undeniably accurate, I don't think I've ever seen anyone contest that. Where people have an issue is where it comes to whether socialism/communism is a truly better ideological system; which they don't believe to be the case, perhaps due to past implementations of this' failures, but also because, at least to an extent; through things like the Red Scare and mass propaganda campaigns we as a society have been led to believe like a hivemind on that point. But there is a reason ideologies like Social Democracy exist, they don't advocate for mass revolution, violence, burning flags, pulling down statues and defacing property. They believe that capitalism is not beyond reform and with things like government nationalisation of certain branches of society (like healthcare, railways etc). And limiting the ability of big business to exploit ordinary people, that's still Marxism. It's just not as "Marxist" as someone who would advocate for the complete overthrowal of such a system.

But let's say they do advocate for the complete overthrowal of the system. You say, completely falsely, that they encourage violence, burn flags, pull down statues and deface property. It's strange to me that a fellow football fan cannot recognise that the movement itself doesn't stand or idolise or condone almost any of these things, especially encouraging violence; burning flags is a First Amendment right. But you refer specifically to the leaders when you call them Marxists, but then don't refer to the leaders in terms of other contexts. The reason this is weird is because there are many, many football fans that are racist. Yet if I accused you of being racist for simply being a football fan, that'd be absurd.

Also, the Marxist point is LITERALLY IRRELEVANT. Like completely, Martin Luther King Jr was also a profound, outspoken Marxist. He was also the leader of a political movement challenging racism in society. It's so irritating that the exact same arguments are unironically used today against such a political, social movement that were used against MLK and the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s. 

So yeah, stop being a and support this please. Your arguments against it are truly woeful. 

H
Suppose we actually have a unique mind and are truly individual. We don't want to adopt a certain ideology of a group, right, left or centre? Thankfully we can still go to the ballot box on our own and put our cross where we want to. Yes we will be called 'morons and woeful' by ideologists but we are free from their thoughts and we make our own judgements and wish to remain that way. Yes they can get aggressive if we don't agree with them, they can try and go against democracy, but it won't work because it is simply unfair and an individual who knows himself will think and act in his or her unique way, that is true freedom and I am grateful and appreciate so much we can express ourselves in that way.

[Hugo the Elder]

Dec 6, 2020 5:52:58 GMT althepirate said:

Dec 5, 2020 23:23:51 GMT stuartcampbell said:

Don't know how many times I need to ask this, but why is a movement "being Marxist." Intrinsically bad? First of all, the movement itself is not Marxist. It is true that the founders of Black Lives Matter have said that they are "trained Marxists," however, they also said they "don't want to be seen as the vanguards of this movement." Although founders in practicality, they hardly see themselves as the leaders of such a political movement.

Secondly, I would argue that most rational people are Marxists, in some way shape or form. Let's put it this way: to be Marxist, you don't inherently have to be a communist or socialist. Now, it is true Marx did advocate for the transitionary phase to communism from capitalism through socialism, however, when you're talking about political ideologies; religious beliefs, points of view: you don't have to agree with every single point someone makes to be that a part of that ideology. Marx's critiques of capitalism were undeniably accurate, I don't think I've ever seen anyone contest that. Where people have an issue is where it comes to whether socialism/communism is a truly better ideological system; which they don't believe to be the case, perhaps due to past implementations of this' failures, but also because, at least to an extent; through things like the Red Scare and mass propaganda campaigns we as a society have been led to believe like a hivemind on that point. But there is a reason ideologies like Social Democracy exist, they don't advocate for mass revolution, violence, burning flags, pulling down statues and defacing property. They believe that capitalism is not beyond reform and with things like government nationalisation of certain branches of society (like healthcare, railways etc). And limiting the ability of big business to exploit ordinary people, that's still Marxism. It's just not as "Marxist" as someone who would advocate for the complete overthrowal of such a system.

But let's say they do advocate for the complete overthrowal of the system. You say, completely falsely, that they encourage violence, burn flags, pull down statues and deface property. It's strange to me that a fellow football fan cannot recognise that the movement itself doesn't stand or idolise or condone almost any of these things, especially encouraging violence; burning flags is a First Amendment right. But you refer specifically to the leaders when you call them Marxists, but then don't refer to the leaders in terms of other contexts. The reason this is weird is because there are many, many football fans that are racist. Yet if I accused you of being racist for simply being a football fan, that'd be absurd.

Also, the Marxist point is LITERALLY IRRELEVANT. Like completely, Martin Luther King Jr was also a profound, outspoken Marxist. He was also the leader of a political movement challenging racism in society. It's so irritating that the exact same arguments are unironically used today against such a political, social movement that were used against MLK and the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s. 

So yeah, stop being a and support this please. Your arguments against it are truly woeful. 

H
Suppose we actually have a unique mind and are truly individual. We don't want to adopt a certain ideology of a group, right, left or centre? Thankfully we can still go to the ballot box on our own and put our cross where we want to. Yes we will be called 'morons and woeful' by ideologists but we are free from their thoughts and we make our own judgements and wish to remain that way. Yes they can get aggressive if we don't agree with them, they can try and go against democracy, but it won't work because it is simply unfair and an individual who knows himself will think and act in his or her unique way, that is true freedom and I am grateful and appreciate so much we can express ourselves in that way.

Its lovely you have true freedom.

Shame not everyone does.

[althepirate]

Dec 6, 2020 6:40:04 GMT Hugo the Elder said:

Dec 6, 2020 5:52:58 GMT althepirate said:

H
Suppose we actually have a unique mind and are truly individual. We don't want to adopt a certain ideology of a group, right, left or centre? Thankfully we can still go to the ballot box on our own and put our cross where we want to. Yes we will be called 'morons and woeful' by ideologists but we are free from their thoughts and we make our own judgements and wish to remain that way. Yes they can get aggressive if we don't agree with them, they can try and go against democracy, but it won't work because it is simply unfair and an individual who knows himself will think and act in his or her unique way, that is true freedom and I am grateful and appreciate so much we can express ourselves in that way.

Its lovely you have true freedom.

Shame not everyone does.

It takes a lot of work, but its well worth it.