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Post by worrelsterlingalbion on Oct 27, 2020 22:51:59 GMT
Disappointing 2nd half but by no means a disaster. Hull will be there or thereabouts come the end of the season and in the end were just a bit too strong for us. Thought Tutonda struggled tonight he wasnt quick enough to stop the cross for 1st goal and got caught out of position a few times.
To me we still don't seem to have the balance of our midfield quite right, McCormick works hard but not really sure what his role is. Grant has done ok but I'm not convinced he's a ball winning defensive midfielder although I dont see Upson as that player either. Liddle might be & being left footer that could give us a better balance.
Still definitely positives to take and we do have options to change things around.
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Post by hardingegas on Oct 27, 2020 22:57:14 GMT
Didn't see the game but wondered what sub changes should have made when we were under pressure?
If Tutonda was being overrun then maybe a change with Leahy coming on in front of him in a 4-4-2?
The best managers can change the shape of a team rather than the personnel but this is something that Garner can learn given time.
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Post by singupgas on Oct 27, 2020 23:00:39 GMT
Was always going to be a difficult game but we give teams far too much respect, for first 20 minutes we looked confident and as if we could hold our own, after that we sat back a little and let Hull settle in and keep the ball.
Seen it time and time again really, it must be a psychological thing as we always do it against teams.
Think there needs to be a bit more belief, bit more bottle and bollocks to take control of a game.
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Post by singupgas on Oct 27, 2020 23:03:01 GMT
Tutonda getting a bit of stick. A couple of weeks ago he was the new Roberto Carlos! Tutonda had a tough shift, constantly under pressure tonight and imo did well. Looks good player despite result. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 23:07:13 GMT
Bit of an over-reaction. I was just commenting on the defending which was sh**, nothing else. Why, would you try and argue our defending wasn’t sh**? Go on then, this should be interesting *grabs popcorn* You’re as nasty and spiteful on these threads as you are in your little communist community. That’s rich coming from someone who despises benefits claimants. |
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Post by wider on Oct 28, 2020 0:45:28 GMT
Tricky and ultimately disappointing game.
Great start with Daly showing again his poachers instinct and how he can finish.
Twenty or so decent minutes but we gradually dropped deeper. An ongoing problem that I hope the coaching can address. Shame Westbrooke didn’t make more of the chance on the stroke of halftime. Put that away and it might have been all over imo as Hull had pressured for so long with nothing to show for it.
Second half we let it get away from us. Bad positioning from Tutonda for first goal - he was out of position a few times and Harries struggled to cover tonight. A few calls did go against us from a ref who doesn’t keep up with play but always surprises me how well he does. However he always seems to let a few trips and pullbacks against us slip through. Did Baldwin slip or was he tripped when they took the lead? Was all over before his mistake at the end.
Biggest disappointment though was the failure to react to the obvious need to change shape and/or personnel with Hull clearly on top. They made a game winning move with 3 subs at once. We did nothing until too late. There was a big gap between the back 3/5 and front 2. It wasn’t working and needed fixing - that was clear in the second quarter, desperate by 15 minutes into second half but no reaction.
Ben has coached the players well - that’s showing now. He is coaching the team better - that’s coming through. He is managing the non game time pretty well now imo but I think the games need addressing. When the plan isn’t working there comes a point where that has to be recognised and addressed if possible. We had substitutes that could have come on or come on sooner tonight. Not the first time it’s happened either.
I feel Ben has done ok so far, things are looking promising but it’s going to take time and won’t gel for a while yet - part of which will be the time for Ben himself to realise when and how he has to influence the game as it is actually happening. Reading the game I suspect he can do already but understanding how or why to change it needs development.
Please can we get behind Ben and the team, our team and not swing from wanting the manager sacked to thinking we are getting promoted game by game? Let’s be supporters and support. Positive criticism gets listened to much more than negative after all. UTG!
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Post by Windmill Hill Gas on Oct 28, 2020 6:42:12 GMT
Great finish from Daly, we could have a gem there! Like others have said if Westbrooke scores it could have been a very different game. I like Zain. He's good on the ball and has a great range of passing, but he has played a lot of minutes and also seems to take every set piece, which seldom come to fruition. Maybe he needs a break from responsibilities and Oztumer or Nicholson should get a start against Rochdale?
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Oct 28, 2020 6:44:50 GMT
Great finish from Daly, we could have a gem there! Like others have said if Westbrooke scores it could have been a very different game. I like Zain. He's good on the ball and has a great range of passing, but he has played a lot of minutes and also seems to take every set piece, which seldom come to fruition. Maybe he needs a break from responsibilities and Oztumer or Nicholson should get a start against Rochdale?Think they're different players. Oztumer and Nicholson need to play further forward. Upson is Westbrooke's direct replacement. P.S I know it was only a cameo but was a bit disappointed with Oztumer when he came on. Maybe my expectations are too high for him. |
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Oct 28, 2020 6:49:27 GMT
As has been the case year after year, if the top teams turn up they are of a higher level than most in this league. The same was true even when we had Snake, Bodin, Ellis. There are good signs that things are coming together and with so many new additions and an inexperienced manager it is clearly going to take time.
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Post by dmacca65 on Oct 28, 2020 7:30:56 GMT
Agreed. We also started the second half really strongly, but once Hull got a foothold, they made it very difficult for us, and sadly we didn't have an answer to it. I do agree with those saying that we should have made subs earlier. I just also think that some posters on here much prefer to post criticism, in fact they seem to revel in it. I get that we all want success for the Gas, but I think some of the negativity is way over the top. Agree on the subs, when Hull brought on 3 players I knew they had us sussed, and were bringing on players with a plan. We should of countered with subs and a slight change of play to negate Hulls changes. Agree either a tweak in formation and/or a counter substitution. |
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Post by gashead1981 on Oct 28, 2020 7:37:37 GMT
If Garner learnt anything from last night this what he should take away.
1. If we go 1-0, don’t sit back and be happy to defend. Press properly for 2-0. It allows the opposition a rhythm which is difficult to break.
2. Give up on the 70 min substitutions. We were crying out for a change on 45 mins. If it needs a change, have the balls to make it when it can count.
3. If a player is having a poor game, don’t be scared to yank him regardless of his past 3. Tutonda and Daly (in spite of his goal) had stinkers.
4. Play strikers through the middle. Hanlan is going so wide, Daly was crowded out or 25 Yards away from him every time he had the ball. We created very little clear cut openings last night through decent interplay.
5. There is no point playing tippy tappy football across the defenders then trying to hoof it to Hanlan then inviting pressure back on ourselves, especially if the opposition are better footballers than us. Let the keeper do that so we can put ourselves defensively higher up the pitch to nullify their ability to come forward.
All the above were so obvious last night and all game Garner did nothing to change or counter it.
It’s no coincidence we have been beaten by every big side this year bar Sunderland where we got real lucky.
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Post by socrates on Oct 28, 2020 7:43:50 GMT
Tricky and ultimately disappointing game. Great start with Daly showing again his poachers instinct and how he can finish. Twenty or so decent minutes but we gradually dropped deeper. An ongoing problem that I hope the coaching can address. Shame Westbrooke didn’t make more of the chance on the stroke of halftime. Put that away and it might have been all over imo as Hull had pressured for so long with nothing to show for it. Second half we let it get away from us. Bad positioning from Tutonda for first goal - he was out of position a few times and Harries struggled to cover tonight. A few calls did go against us from a ref who doesn’t keep up with play but always surprises me how well he does. However he always seems to let a few trips and pullbacks against us slip through. Did Baldwin slip or was he tripped when they took the lead? Was all over before his mistake at the end. Biggest disappointment though was the failure to react to the obvious need to change shape and/or personnel with Hull clearly on top. They made a game winning move with 3 subs at once. We did nothing until too late. There was a big gap between the back 3/5 and front 2. It wasn’t working and needed fixing - that was clear in the second quarter, desperate by 15 minutes into second half but no reaction. Ben has coached the players well - that’s showing now. He is coaching the team better - that’s coming through. He is managing the non game time pretty well now imo but I think the games need addressing. When the plan isn’t working there comes a point where that has to be recognised and addressed if possible. We had substitutes that could have come on or come on sooner tonight. Not the first time it’s happened either. I feel Ben has done ok so far, things are looking promising but it’s going to take time and won’t gel for a while yet - part of which will be the time for Ben himself to realise when and how he has to influence the game as it is actually happening. Reading the game I suspect he can do already but understanding how or why to change it needs development. Please can we get behind Ben and the team, our team and not swing from wanting the manager sacked to thinking we are getting promoted game by game? Let’s be supporters and support. Positive criticism gets listened to much more than negative after all. UTG! The change he needed to make once Hull got control was to bring on an experienced midfield general to help get control back in the game. In fact that’s what we need from the start but haven’t got one in the squad and it will continue to show until we either bring one on or Grant improves with ability age and experience. |
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Post by wallywalters on Oct 28, 2020 8:01:52 GMT
For me our midfield 3 simply isn't good enough against the better teams.
Grant is not a ball winning midfielder and does not retain the ball well enough yet.
Westbrooke is a luxury player who is supposed to create chances for us but imo has not shown much creativity at all. This isn't helped by the fact he always finds himself in our own half.
McCormick tries hard but doesn't really achieve anything of note
I honestly think it's time for Nicholson and otzhumer to be given runs on the side in some format.
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Post by Jomo on Oct 28, 2020 8:22:33 GMT
For me our midfield 3 simply isn't good enough against the better teams. Grant is not a ball winning midfielder and does not retain the ball well enough yet. Westbrooke is a luxury player who is supposed to create chances for us but imo has not shown much creativity at all. This isn't helped by the fact he always finds himself in our own half. McCormick tries hard but doesn't really achieve anything of note I honestly think it's time for Nicholson and otzhumer to be given runs on the side in some format. I agree, I do like Grant, Westbrooke and McCormick, but last night most things they tried simply didn't work. I'd also add to that that whilst Hanlan does a great job of battling with defenders and trying to retain the ball, I do also get frustrated when I see him backtracking, changing direction and trying to get himself into space, which more often than not leads to him losing the ball. I feel he needs to play more centrally as at the moment he doesn't seem to be really affecting the game in a potent attacking sense. |
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Post by e4bandrobinstubbs on Oct 28, 2020 8:37:52 GMT
The main issue seems to be that we aren't physically fit enough.
The top teams we've played are strong right to the end, and they have better players of course. We get tired and fall back on back passes. If we were fitter we could stand up to them more by going at them for longer periods. Should stop the soft goals given away at the end too.
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Post by xenongas on Oct 28, 2020 8:42:38 GMT
Didn't see the game but wondered what sub changes should have made when we were under pressure? If Tutonda was being overrun then maybe a change with Leahy coming on in front of him in a 4-4-2? The best managers can change the shape of a team rather than the personnel but this is something that Garner can learn given time. Subs wouldn't have definitely changed the game but with the constant pressure you felt like a goal was coming and freshening it up may have disrupted Hull with something else to think about. And it's not so much the old days of clamouring for a Telford/Jakubiak just because they're not playing, there's no complaints with the starting XI. We spent the whole second half reacting to Hull so getting on the front foot would have helped us I think. We had a period of keeping the ball at 1-2 which we needed 10 minutes earlier. Although this could have just been Hull stepping back with their lead. Oztumer didn't do much when he came on and Nicholson just didn't have enough time to make an impact. But they are exciting players that force the opposition to at least react to our forward threats. I rate both Daly and Mccormick but their games are suited to forcing mistakes rather than driving the team forward. Nicholson dribbling could have dragged everyone forward so Hanlon wasn't so isolated too. Its all hypothetical though and nothing to get too worked up over, just something that could have been done differently. TL;DR Bringing on midfielders to add an extra threat might have disrupted Hull and eased some pressure but it's all hypothetical. |
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Post by Jomo on Oct 28, 2020 8:45:42 GMT
The main issue seems to be that we aren't physically fit enough. The top teams we've played are strong right to the end, and they have better players of course. We get tired and fall back on back passes. If we were fitter we could stand up to them more by going at them for longer periods. Should stop the soft goals given away at the end too. To me this is due to the high pressing game we're playing. Daly was chasing everything down for an hour, and then you could see that he was knackered by the end. I hope that the fitness levels will improve to allow us to play our pressing game effectively for 90 minutes, but I can imagine it's very difficult. Many pundits are questioning whether Leeds will be able to maintain their level of intensity for a whole season, as it surely takes its toll on the players busting a gut constantly. Maybe we should get the Beard back to show them how it's done 😁 |
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Post by Qatar Gas on Oct 28, 2020 8:50:15 GMT
Didn't see the game but wondered what sub changes should have made when we were under pressure? If Tutonda was being overrun then maybe a change with Leahy coming on in front of him in a 4-4-2? The best managers can change the shape of a team rather than the personnel but this is something that Garner can learn given time. I was thinking the same, when we were under pressure who could we actually bring on? The other week BG brought on Upson when we were under pressure but we still conceded and he got slated for it. Maybe like last week he should have made some earlier attacking subs. They might have been able to hold the ball up a bit more at the other end of the pitch but I am not too sure if it would have helped much with us being under pressure. Of course everyone will argue that someone like Ogogo would have been the perfect player to bring on. Someone to get stuck in and win the ball back. Of course this subject has been done to death now but at some point maybe BG will realise that he may need a player or two like that. Even if they wont play he preferred way. |
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Oct 28, 2020 8:57:23 GMT
IMO the balance & blend of the midfield is off.
Individually they’re all doing an OK job (although I hope there’s much more to come from Westbrooke & Grant), but as a unit it’s not threatening enough to the opposition.
I think we really lack a ball carrier who could pick it up in the middle and drive forward with it. It would help to drag the whole team up the pitch when we’re under pressure and link the midfield & attack better.
At the moment everyone just wants to get it & give it to the nearest man, other than Westbrooke who tries the occasional switch. It’s too easy to defend against IMO.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 28, 2020 9:04:36 GMT
I thought we played quite well and deserved to not win. The difference was Hull's strength in depth and you can see how they drew themselves into the match, they will be there or thereabouts at end of season.
It is somewhere near where we have to be to aspire to be successful in this league, and it heartens me we competed with them easily for large parts of the game.
Another great seized opportune goal from Daly, that looked to run himself all match.....ably assisted by Hanlan whom I thought naivety trying the 'Ellis of old trick, come on ref?' and ending up on grass more often, it wasn't his fans but credit to Hull for keeping him and our win backs relatively quiet. But, Daly...?.... he's liking himself to be the instinctive finisher we've craved for so long. I like the blend with Hanlan, this promises to be a great partnership and it's no coincidence our uprise in form and results align with their starting inclusion..
I liked Westbrooke contribution, and Grant, McCormick flitted in and out and was rightly subbed bit too late imo..
Jaak sound as always, particularly liked the horizontal punch out into the centre circle!?
Two mentions.... Harries, as much as he appears to cover and work well with Tutonga, he definitely appears to have a sliced mistake in him!? And Mike Baldwin? What was he thinking of (probably Deirdre?) with kamikaze defending at the end?
Ok, so a match we lost and the better team won....but BG should take some positives that we didn't roll over, had opportunity ourselves and generally looked quite useful. If we can man mark better and not pass to the opposition on cusp of our own box, it might have been a different result....but as a stand alone match we can take pride we competed and done ok it just wasn't our night...
Well done over all.
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