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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 14:46:51 GMT
Come on France, You cant avoid the detail. This has been covered. Already covered and debated under the Brexit thread. Right, ok. So I guess its ok to keep on making the same less than fulsome responses? A bit like suggesting your vote will influence interest rates, the stock market and your private pension. Anyway. 365 Well, as a boomer, I couldnt disagree more. The thing is taking down the Tories on economic policy and social policies is easy, they are their for the taking. If the centre (or opposition) did not keep shooting itself in the foot by pursuing unelectable policies and people they would never win. My timeline is 1970 when I was eligible to vote. Since that year when the country elected another buffoon in Ted Heath, has there been a period where a Tory Government has led a cohesive Government which resulted to the improvement of the majority of people in this country across all areas and demographic? You wont be able to because its never happened. All we get is demonization of segments of our community, declining public services, deregulation that leads to catastrophic economic and environmental impacts. They get away with it because they appeal to the lowest common denominator of nationalism. Thats it. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 14:48:56 GMT
Again, this is what I wonder about Brits who live abroad yet endorse Brexit. You’ve had the luxury of freedom of movement, which you have taken advantage of and yet you fully endorse it being taken away from the millennials and their kids not to mention you won’t have to live with the economic fallout on jobs etc. It’s playing up to the little Englander picture that is being painted in threads like these. Classic “pull the ladder up after yourself” stuff. Hasn't everyone had the luxury of freedom of movement if wanted ? Christ 365 you really come across as bitter and jealous of anyone who has anything in life. You seem to think the world and anyone who has assets owe you in life. I'm not doubting it's tough for people to get on the property ladder, although I don't know why you would want to as you despise anyone with an asset and think it's a good thing people with assets are in your words "snuffing it". Don't know if you are aware but in 2018 there was a 12 year high in first time buyer mortgages being granted so some people are managing to get on the mortgage ladder. Theres far more government help schemes now than there was in the 80s when you seem to think it was so much easier to buy a property. Also in the 80s we had record high interest rates on mortgages not the 2-3% you can get today, no lender was offering 100% mortgages, no stamp duty breaks that are offered at the moment, so life wasn't a bed of Rose's you make it out to be. Oh god, there is so much factually wrong with that, where to start? |
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Post by yattongas on Oct 26, 2020 15:05:14 GMT
Again, this is what I wonder about Brits who live abroad yet endorse Brexit. You’ve had the luxury of freedom of movement, which you have taken advantage of and yet you fully endorse it being taken away from the millennials and their kids not to mention you won’t have to live with the economic fallout on jobs etc. It’s playing up to the little Englander picture that is being painted in threads like these. Classic “pull the ladder up after yourself” stuff. Hasn't everyone had the luxury of freedom of movement if wanted ? Christ 365 you really come across as bitter and jealous of anyone who has anything in life. You seem to think the world and anyone who has assets owe you in life. I'm not doubting it's tough for people to get on the property ladder, although I don't know why you would want to as you despise anyone with an asset and think it's a good thing people with assets are in your words "snuffing it". Don't know if you are aware but in 2018 there was a 12 year high in first time buyer mortgages being granted so some people are managing to get on the mortgage ladder. Theres far more government help schemes now than there was in the 80s when you seem to think it was so much easier to buy a property. Also in the 80s we had record high interest rates on mortgages not the 2-3% you can get today, no lender was offering 100% mortgages, no stamp duty breaks that are offered at the moment, so life wasn't a bed of Rose's you make it out to be. Yes people have HAD the benefits of freedom of movement ( which you’ve used and enjoyed !) but.... it’s being take away from the next generation and all us stuck here . The sheer crassness of this statement sums up Brexit lovers. If you’ve got loads of money of course you could just buy yourself (50k) a Maltese passport and carry on as before. Unless you’ve already exorcised your freedom of movement rights . You admitted already that you’re living of the proceeds of a house sale in the UK that no doubt handed you a nice profit . No problem with that but why shouldn’t the younger generation begrudge theIt elders having the opportunity to buy houses at 2/3 times average annual wage , when now it’s 7/9 times annual wage . I’d be royally watered off ! Getting a mortgage was bloody easy back then .... nothing like the hoops you have to jump through now . No mortgage lender to my knowledge is offering 100% mortgages.... you’d be lucky to 80% ....90% if you want to pay through the nose. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 15:08:54 GMT
Again, this is what I wonder about Brits who live abroad yet endorse Brexit. You’ve had the luxury of freedom of movement, which you have taken advantage of and yet you fully endorse it being taken away from the millennials and their kids not to mention you won’t have to live with the economic fallout on jobs etc. It’s playing up to the little Englander picture that is being painted in threads like these. Classic “pull the ladder up after yourself” stuff. Hasn't everyone had the luxury of freedom of movement if wanted ? Christ 365 you really come across as bitter and jealous of anyone who has anything in life. You seem to think the world and anyone who has assets owe you in life. I'm not doubting it's tough for people to get on the property ladder, although I don't know why you would want to as you despise anyone with an asset and think it's a good thing people with assets are in your words "snuffing it". Don't know if you are aware but in 2018 there was a 12 year high in first time buyer mortgages being granted so some people are managing to get on the mortgage ladder. Theres far more government help schemes now than there was in the 80s when you seem to think it was so much easier to buy a property. Also in the 80s we had record high interest rates on mortgages not the 2-3% you can get today, no lender was offering 100% mortgages, no stamp duty breaks that are offered at the moment, so life wasn't a bed of Rose's you make it out to be. That’s just your personal interpretation, I’ve argued about *opportunity* not demanded something for nothing- you haven’t really tried to debate any of the points I’ve raised either about how tough it is for young people trying to get on in life. Did you read the article about millennials being the first generation to fare worse than their parents? Why don’t you debate the actual facts. Where can you get 100% mortgages at the moment? Boris is pondering a move to bring in 5% mortgages. Most young people are only able to buy because they are lent/gifted the money by parents because raising 15k for a deposit is bloody hard work when rents are so high and statistics indicate that millennials are paying in the region of ~40% of their income on rents. How are you supposed to save? It’s not exactly like wages are keeping up with the cost of living let alone the cost of housing. You might point to schemes like help to buy but if you look at the effect that has had on the property market it is abundantly clear that it made littler material difference to people trying to get on the ladder, it just helped first time buyers who *already had the money* buy a bigger house than they were going to and in the process artificially boosted house prices and raised lots of money for developers that famously went in the CEO of Persimmon’s back pocket. Help to buy and the lowering of interest rates to record lows is socialism that benefits YOU the home owner because it boosts prices and protects you from a price crash, with help to buy funded by the tax payer. The housing market is a “free” market that needs socialism to help prop it up. Still hate socialism now do you? Anyway all I ask is that there is something left for the generations that come after to us in order for them to have secure housing but the trends are progressing towards more young people being priced out of housing security and into expensive rents. Even if Boris dangled 5% mortgages in front of me I’d still vote Labour because I‘m not the sort of person to abandon my principles. Housing should be about shelter from the elements, a basic right, not a tool to build an investment portfolio and profit from. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 15:11:37 GMT
Hasn't everyone had the luxury of freedom of movement if wanted ? Christ 365 you really come across as bitter and jealous of anyone who has anything in life. You seem to think the world and anyone who has assets owe you in life. I'm not doubting it's tough for people to get on the property ladder, although I don't know why you would want to as you despise anyone with an asset and think it's a good thing people with assets are in your words "snuffing it". Don't know if you are aware but in 2018 there was a 12 year high in first time buyer mortgages being granted so some people are managing to get on the mortgage ladder. Theres far more government help schemes now than there was in the 80s when you seem to think it was so much easier to buy a property. Also in the 80s we had record high interest rates on mortgages not the 2-3% you can get today, no lender was offering 100% mortgages, no stamp duty breaks that are offered at the moment, so life wasn't a bed of Rose's you make it out to be. Yes people have HAD the benefits of freedom of movement ( which you’ve used and enjoyed !) but.... it’s being take away from the next generation and all us stuck here . The sheer crassness of this statement sums up Brexit lovers. If you’ve got loads of money of course you could just buy yourself (50k) a Maltese passport and carry on as before. Unless you’ve already exorcised your freedom of movement rights . You admitted already that you’re living of the proceeds of a house sale in the UK that no doubt handed you a nice profit . No problem with that but why shouldn’t the younger generation begrudge theIt elders having the opportunity to buy houses at 2/3 times average annual wage , when now it’s 7/9 times annual wage . I’d be royally watered off ! Getting a mortgage was bloody easy back then .... nothing like the hoops you have to jump through now . No mortgage lender to my knowledge is offering 100% mortgages.... you’d be lucky to 80% ....90% if you want to pay through the nose. So solipsistic eh? It must be a hell of a view up in that ivory tower watching the peasants argue over school meals. |
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Post by francegas on Oct 26, 2020 15:12:46 GMT
Hasn't everyone had the luxury of freedom of movement if wanted ? Christ 365 you really come across as bitter and jealous of anyone who has anything in life. You seem to think the world and anyone who has assets owe you in life. I'm not doubting it's tough for people to get on the property ladder, although I don't know why you would want to as you despise anyone with an asset and think it's a good thing people with assets are in your words "snuffing it". Don't know if you are aware but in 2018 there was a 12 year high in first time buyer mortgages being granted so some people are managing to get on the mortgage ladder. Theres far more government help schemes now than there was in the 80s when you seem to think it was so much easier to buy a property. Also in the 80s we had record high interest rates on mortgages not the 2-3% you can get today, no lender was offering 100% mortgages, no stamp duty breaks that are offered at the moment, so life wasn't a bed of Rose's you make it out to be. Oh god, there is so much factually wrong with that, where to start? Go on then what is factually wrong, the 12 year high in first time mortgages, higher mortgage interest rates in the 80s, more government help schemes today, very low mortgage rates today, no stamp duty breaks in the 80s, no 100% mortgages in the 80s other than for council right to buy, in fact I could add that today lenders offer higher multiples on salaries than in the 80s. So Oldie which of those facts are wrong. |
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Post by oldgas on Oct 26, 2020 15:25:21 GMT
Hasn't everyone had the luxury of freedom of movement if wanted ? Christ 365 you really come across as bitter and jealous of anyone who has anything in life. You seem to think the world and anyone who has assets owe you in life. I'm not doubting it's tough for people to get on the property ladder, although I don't know why you would want to as you despise anyone with an asset and think it's a good thing people with assets are in your words "snuffing it". Don't know if you are aware but in 2018 there was a 12 year high in first time buyer mortgages being granted so some people are managing to get on the mortgage ladder. Theres far more government help schemes now than there was in the 80s when you seem to think it was so much easier to buy a property. Also in the 80s we had record high interest rates on mortgages not the 2-3% you can get today, no lender was offering 100% mortgages, no stamp duty breaks that are offered at the moment, so life wasn't a bed of Rose's you make it out to be. but who has helped drive property prices up? Massive immigration, more and more people competing for existing housing stock. First there was the unfettered immigration from the 3rd world introduced by that socialist asshole Blair to bolster the number of people voting Labour and to rub the rights nose in diversity, whatever that’s meant to mean, followed by 3 million plus from Europe, all eager to avail themselves of the largess conferred by the socialist state and not available in their own countries. So there you have it, house prices have risen beyond the reach of a lot of people because of the immigration policies of the Labour government and immigration forced on us by membership of the EU. You must be really proud of the consequences of your support for the above 2 institutions. All you socialists have to do now is concrete over most of the countryside to provide housing for all these potential Labour voters. |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Oct 26, 2020 15:42:30 GMT
but who has helped drive property prices up? Massive immigration, more and more people competing for existing housing stock. First there was the unfettered immigration from the 3rd world introduced by that socialist asshole Blair to bolster the number of people voting Labour and to rub the rights nose in diversity, whatever that’s meant to mean, followed by 3 million plus from Europe, all eager to avail themselves of the largess conferred by the socialist state and not available in their own countries. So there you have it, house prices have risen beyond the reach of a lot of people because of the immigration policies of the Labour government and immigration forced on us by membership of the EU. You must be really proud of the consequences of your support for the above 2 institutions. All you socialists have to do now is concrete over most of the countryside to provide housing for all these potential Labour voters. You obvs wouldn’t get on with FG then as he’s a migrant from Europe .... living in France of course. So house prices have gone up because scroungers have come over and taken benefits yet they’ve also managed to buy all the housing stock ..... whilst scrounging benefits . Adds up ! Also I thought you’re lot were welcoming of anyone from all parts of the world as it should be equalised to work here ... rather than Europeans getting things easier ? I think we know what you are Oldgas , you know what you are . |
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Post by oldgas on Oct 26, 2020 15:49:48 GMT
Massive immigration, more and more people competing for existing housing stock. First there was the unfettered immigration from the 3rd world introduced by that socialist asshole Blair to bolster the number of people voting Labour and to rub the rights nose in diversity, whatever that’s meant to mean, followed by 3 million plus from Europe, all eager to avail themselves of the largess conferred by the socialist state and not available in their own countries. So there you have it, house prices have risen beyond the reach of a lot of people because of the immigration policies of the Labour government and immigration forced on us by membership of the EU. You must be really proud of the consequences of your support for the above 2 institutions. All you socialists have to do now is concrete over most of the countryside to provide housing for all these potential Labour voters. You obvs wouldn’t get on with FG then as he’s a migrant from Europe .... living in France of course. So house prices have gone up because scroungers have come over and taken benefits yet they’ve also managed to buy all the housing stock ..... whilst scrounging benefits . Adds up ! Also I thought you’re lot were welcoming of anyone from all parts of the world as it should be equalised to work here ... rather than Europeans getting things easier ? I think we know what you are Oldgas , you know what you are . I know who I am, someone who can see beyond the end of his nose. You really telling me that 6+ million arrivals over the last few years hasn’t had an effect on housing? Really? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 26, 2020 15:50:14 GMT
Massive immigration, more and more people competing for existing housing stock. First there was the unfettered immigration from the 3rd world introduced by that socialist asshole Blair to bolster the number of people voting Labour and to rub the rights nose in diversity, whatever that’s meant to mean, followed by 3 million plus from Europe, all eager to avail themselves of the largess conferred by the socialist state and not available in their own countries. So there you have it, house prices have risen beyond the reach of a lot of people because of the immigration policies of the Labour government and immigration forced on us by membership of the EU. You must be really proud of the consequences of your support for the above 2 institutions. All you socialists have to do now is concrete over most of the countryside to provide housing for all these potential Labour voters. You obvs wouldn’t get on with FG then as he’s a migrant from Europe .... living in France of course. So house prices have gone up because scroungers have come over and taken benefits yet they’ve also managed to buy all the housing stock ..... whilst scrounging benefits . Adds up ! Also I thought you’re lot were welcoming of anyone from all parts of the world as it should be equalised to work here ... rather than Europeans getting things easier ? I think we know what you are Oldgas , you know what you are . Oldgas is a well balanced poster..... ......a chip on both shoulders. |
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Post by oldgas on Oct 26, 2020 15:51:29 GMT
You obvs wouldn’t get on with FG then as he’s a migrant from Europe .... living in France of course. So house prices have gone up because scroungers have come over and taken benefits yet they’ve also managed to buy all the housing stock ..... whilst scrounging benefits . Adds up ! Also I thought you’re lot were welcoming of anyone from all parts of the world as it should be equalised to work here ... rather than Europeans getting things easier ? I think we know what you are Oldgas , you know what you are . Oldgas is a well balanced poster..... ......a chip on both shoulders. Yay! The old ones are the best. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 16:01:45 GMT
but who has helped drive property prices up? Massive immigration, more and more people competing for existing housing stock. First there was the unfettered immigration from the 3rd world introduced by that socialist asshole Blair to bolster the number of people voting Labour and to rub the rights nose in diversity, whatever that’s meant to mean, followed by 3 million plus from Europe, all eager to avail themselves of the largess conferred by the socialist state and not available in their own countries. So there you have it, house prices have risen beyond the reach of a lot of people because of the immigration policies of the Labour government and immigration forced on us by membership of the EU. You must be really proud of the consequences of your support for the above 2 institutions. All you socialists have to do now is concrete over most of the countryside to provide housing for all these potential Labour voters. And what about Thatcher and successive governments failing to build more social housing to replace what was lost during right to buy? Reckon that had any effect? Or opening up housing as an investment vehicle through buy to let? Or encouragement of wealthy foreign nationals (mainly Russians) to use British housing stock to launder their money whilst leaving those houses empty? No? It was all just immigration? Because the Sun told you? Right. Okay. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 16:04:41 GMT
You obvs wouldn’t get on with FG then as he’s a migrant from Europe .... living in France of course. So house prices have gone up because scroungers have come over and taken benefits yet they’ve also managed to buy all the housing stock ..... whilst scrounging benefits . Adds up ! Also I thought you’re lot were welcoming of anyone from all parts of the world as it should be equalised to work here ... rather than Europeans getting things easier ? I think we know what you are Oldgas , you know what you are . I know who I am, someone who can see beyond the end of his nose. You really telling me that 6+ million arrivals over the last few years hasn’t had an effect on housing? Really? You look in the mirror, shout, what do you see and hear? There are three adjectives, one is ignorant, what do you think the other two are? |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Oct 26, 2020 16:24:16 GMT
Massive immigration, more and more people competing for existing housing stock. First there was the unfettered immigration from the 3rd world introduced by that socialist asshole Blair to bolster the number of people voting Labour and to rub the rights nose in diversity, whatever that’s meant to mean, followed by 3 million plus from Europe, all eager to avail themselves of the largess conferred by the socialist state and not available in their own countries. So there you have it, house prices have risen beyond the reach of a lot of people because of the immigration policies of the Labour government and immigration forced on us by membership of the EU. You must be really proud of the consequences of your support for the above 2 institutions. All you socialists have to do now is concrete over most of the countryside to provide housing for all these potential Labour voters. And what about Thatcher and successive governments failing to build more social housing to replace what was lost during right to buy? Reckon that had any effect? Or opening up housing as an investment vehicle through buy to let? Or encouragement of wealthy foreign nationals (mainly Russians) to use British housing stock to launder their money whilst leaving those houses empty? No? It was all just immigration? Because the Sun told you? Right. Okay. Who remembers that Conservative classic ..... for every council house we sell we’ll build two more ? People believed them 🙄 |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 16:32:11 GMT
And what about Thatcher and successive governments failing to build more social housing to replace what was lost during right to buy? Reckon that had any effect? Or opening up housing as an investment vehicle through buy to let? Or encouragement of wealthy foreign nationals (mainly Russians) to use British housing stock to launder their money whilst leaving those houses empty? No? It was all just immigration? Because the Sun told you? Right. Okay. Who remembers that Conservative classic ..... for every council house we sell we’ll build two more ? People believed them 🙄 Doubled down since 2010 with countless empty commitments. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 17:04:11 GMT
Oh god, there is so much factually wrong with that, where to start? Go on then what is factually wrong, the 12 year high in first time mortgages, higher mortgage interest rates in the 80s, more government help schemes today, very low mortgage rates today, no stamp duty breaks in the 80s, no 100% mortgages in the 80s other than for council right to buy, in fact I could add that today lenders offer higher multiples on salaries than in the 80s. So Oldie which of those facts are wrong. Ok. Let's start with a genuine free market rule. If supply is constricted, which housing was and is, and then the Government introduces a taxpayers funding for house buyers, called "Help to Buy", what happens to house price inflation? You know the answer and in so doing further suppressing the ability of those further down the income ladder to buy a home as they will never afford the mortgage repayments resulting from said price inflation. The near ten year stagnation of real wages from 2009 refers. Completely insane. I bought my first house in 1974 and then replaced that in 1977. I seem to recall the interest rate on the mortgage was 12.5% or thereabouts. In the early 1980s, 1981 I think, it rose to 14.3%. Why because in those days the interest rate was controlled by the Treasury, that would be a Tory led Treasury. The same Tory Government that had made a pig's ear of monetary policy and an absolute disastrous fiscal policy. Relevance? They are doing it again. Thankfully they cannot mess with the BoE rate due to the reforms brought in after 1997 (which they opposed), but they are making stupid decions like "Help to Buy" without addressing the supply side. Stamp Duty breaks and other fiscal stimulus like that are only there to try and stimulate a flat lining economy. They would have been far better to use that taxpayers cash to build homes, creating jobs, stimulating the economy and helping to suppress house price inflation. But they didn't. Now we have a hyper inflated housing bubble which, unless we get very lucky the pandemic caused contraction in the economy will burst. Leaving people in negative equity (you advocated 100% mortgages, further insanity), still a supply totally incapable of meeting demand, but with unemployment leaving even more people with little ability to finance a mortgage. At which point banks pull their mortgage products. Fuelling stagflation. You think this is the right way to run an economy? People like 365 are caught up in this economic illiteracy. I am very surprised you support it. |
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Post by oldgas on Oct 26, 2020 17:13:51 GMT
simple question.
Do you think the number of people in the country has any affect on the housing supply?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 17:22:04 GMT
Go on then what is factually wrong, the 12 year high in first time mortgages, higher mortgage interest rates in the 80s, more government help schemes today, very low mortgage rates today, no stamp duty breaks in the 80s, no 100% mortgages in the 80s other than for council right to buy, in fact I could add that today lenders offer higher multiples on salaries than in the 80s. So Oldie which of those facts are wrong. Ok. Let's start with a genuine free market rule. If supply is constricted, which housing was and is, and then the Government introduces a taxpayers funding for house buyers, called "Help to Buy", what happens to house price inflation? You know the answer and in so doing further suppressing the ability of those further down the income ladder to buy a home as they will never afford the mortgage repayments resulting from said price inflation. The near ten year stagnation of real wages from 2009 refers. Completely insane. I bought my first house in 1974 and then replaced that in 1977. I seem to recall the interest rate on the mortgage was 12.5% or thereabouts. In the early 1980s, 1981 I think, it rose to 14.3%. Why because in those days the interest rate was controlled by the Treasury, that would be a Tory led Treasury. The same Tory Government that had made a pig's ear of monetary policy and an absolute disastrous fiscal policy. Relevance? They are doing it again. Thankfully they cannot mess with the BoE rate due to the reforms brought in after 1997 (which they opposed), but they are making stupid decions like "Help to Buy" without addressing the supply side. Stamp Duty breaks and other fiscal stimulus like that are only there to try and stimulate a flat lining economy. They would have been far better to use that taxpayers cash to build homes, creating jobs, stimulating the economy and helping to suppress house price inflation. But they didn't. Now we have a hyper inflated housing bubble which, unless we get very lucky the pandemic caused contraction in the economy will burst. Leaving people in negative equity (you advocated 100% mortgages, further insanity), still a supply totally incapable of meeting demand, but with unemployment leaving even more people with little ability to finance a mortgage. At which point banks pull their mortgage products. Fuelling stagflation. You think this is the right way to run an economy? People like 365 are caught up in this economic illiteracy. I am very surprised you support it. Yep, nailed it. Let’s be fair of course francegas supports it, he has done alright and has retired abroad, it’s not his problem anymore and presumably his kids are set up for life too. So he can sip champagne and watch the fight for resources from a distance with his feet up. I just wish he wouldn’t believe this whole “you just have to work hard” stuff that a lot of boomers buy into because as you have explained it’s a different era now. Hard work in and of itself is rewarded with stagnant wages unless you can innovate or afford to re-train. In some ways the housing bubble it’s very clever political policy because it keeps pushing house prices up which is a vote winner with 60% of the electorate, plus fuelling further division into the haves vs the have nots. The haves being the people who have access to large house deposits. One question, don’t the government have some hand in setting the interest rate? It appears to have been set artificially low since time immemorial to avoid the sort of housing bust that we saw in America in the mid 2000’s. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 17:24:59 GMT
simple question. Do you think the number of people in the country has any affect on the housing supply? Undoubtedly it does- but it’s not the only factor and hey, if there was enough housing stock that wouldn’t be a problem right? And when did we stop building social housing and who started that policy? There was no housing problem before Thatcher and she in turn was around long before mass migration so blame her before you blame Johnny asylum seeker, although obviously Johnny asylum seeker has not helped. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 17:32:46 GMT
It's a travesty mate. Unfortunately there is no way out of that situation in this country, this is Tory land, a competitive free market, so a few winners but mainly losers. It'll always boil down to the haves and have nots. So what policy should we follow that will carry the vote of the electorate? Politics is broken imo. I prefer to look at things from a philosophical pov which is why I enjoy reading Marx and others. I see politics in the same way some people might see religion, as just a means to control the masses, offering the illusion of freedom. |
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