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Post by oldgas on Oct 26, 2020 18:03:14 GMT
simple question. Do you think the number of people in the country has any affect on the housing supply? Undoubtedly it does- but it’s not the only factor and hey, if there was enough housing stock that wouldn’t be a problem right? And when did we stop building social housing and who started that policy? There was no housing problem before Thatcher and she in turn was around long before mass migration so blame her before you blame Johnny asylum seeker, although obviously Johnny asylum seeker has not helped. It’s not just Johnny Asylum seeker though, is it? Johnny Asylum seeker is an infinitesimally small number compared to the millions let into the country by the Blair asshole and membership of the EU. You keep on about the Tories selling off council houses. That was a stupid policy, but the intention was good as they were trying to give people the chance to own their own home. However there wasn’t a flood of people being allowed into the country at the time. Your Labour friends were responsible for that. Seeing as the useless wankers had 12 years in power, don’t you think they should have built the social housing required to house the million of predominantly poor people without a hope in hell of buying their own property? |
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Post by oldgas on Oct 26, 2020 18:09:02 GMT
Massive immigration, more and more people competing for existing housing stock. First there was the unfettered immigration from the 3rd world introduced by that socialist asshole Blair to bolster the number of people voting Labour and to rub the rights nose in diversity, whatever that’s meant to mean, followed by 3 million plus from Europe, all eager to avail themselves of the largess conferred by the socialist state and not available in their own countries. So there you have it, house prices have risen beyond the reach of a lot of people because of the immigration policies of the Labour government and immigration forced on us by membership of the EU. You must be really proud of the consequences of your support for the above 2 institutions. All you socialists have to do now is concrete over most of the countryside to provide housing for all these potential Labour voters. You obvs wouldn’t get on with FG then as he’s a migrant from Europe .... living in France of course. So house prices have gone up because scroungers have come over and taken benefits yet they’ve also managed to buy all the housing stock ..... whilst scrounging benefits . Adds up ! Also I thought you’re lot were welcoming of anyone from all parts of the world as it should be equalised to work here ... rather than Europeans getting things easier ? I think we know what you are Oldgas , you know what you are . Really? I assumed he is a Brit who has chosen to make his home in France. |
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Post by yattongas on Oct 26, 2020 18:15:00 GMT
You obvs wouldn’t get on with FG then as he’s a migrant from Europe .... living in France of course. So house prices have gone up because scroungers have come over and taken benefits yet they’ve also managed to buy all the housing stock ..... whilst scrounging benefits . Adds up ! Also I thought you’re lot were welcoming of anyone from all parts of the world as it should be equalised to work here ... rather than Europeans getting things easier ? I think we know what you are Oldgas , you know what you are . Really? I assumed he is a Brit who has chosen to make his home in France. So you’ve no problem with brits moving to Europe to live but don’t want Europeans moving here to live ? Makes sense...... in the warped mind of a brexit voter. |
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Post by oldgas on Oct 26, 2020 18:25:26 GMT
Really? I assumed he is a Brit who has chosen to make his home in France. So you’ve no problem with brits moving to Europe to live but don’t want Europeans moving here to live ? Makes sense...... in the warped mind of a brexit voter. I believe there is a total of perhaps 600,000 Brits living in Europe. The majority of whom are well-off, probably retired and with the financial wherewithal to support themselves. They went there for the climate and to live in a less crowded environment. For example, France and Spain have about 6 times the land mass Of the UK with considerably less than twice our population.Let’s face it, no Brit would go to Europe to claim benefits, they'd get told to F off. Also, the migration from here has been gradual and managed, they certainly didn’t make their way there en mass, by the plane and coach load.To the tune of 3 million. So you’re not really comparing like for like, are you? Which is is an unfortunate symptom of being a Remainer. |
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Post by stuartcampbell on Oct 26, 2020 18:32:40 GMT
There is a real fear of Marxism/communism/socialism in this country with very little respect for socialist policies that have worked well particularly the NHS and the socialist policies that have rescued us from the numerous times when free market capitalism has failed (most recently because of CV, then 2008, state interference to prop up house prices etc). By contrast I don’t recall free market capitalism saving the USSR from the fall of communism in the early 90s, where the few got rich and the rest were plunged into even more poverty than they already were. Neither system is perfect and some mix is needed. It’s scary though the lack of any balance that seems to be espoused by those on the right wing. They love free healthcare but they will not admit as much, nor admit as much when they benefit personally from the state and socialist policies. When others benefit however they are quick to denounce the involvement of the state and the “waste” of their tax payer money (how much of which they avoided paying is a pertinent question). As always, socialism for the well off is perfectly acceptable yet is an evil that will not speak it’s name whilst socialism for the poor is a disgrace and they should be left to die. It's generally because I believe for a generally well-educated population, people's understanding of socialism is so basic; and it's been trained to think that way. Decades and decades of Red-Scare style propaganda against socialism has affected people, you hear the same arguments over and over again. A personal favourite of mine is when they bring up Animal Farm, which was an argument against Marxism-Leninism and not Socialism as a whole, I mean, it was written by a socialist (although Orwell was kind of massively hypocritical). Marxism is just a buzzword honestly. People use it to mean a bad thing, despite so many historical figures being Marxists (Helen Keller, Albert Einstein, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X etc.) but Marx developed a lot of economic theory and left-leaning politics that I would argue most people on the left are in some shape or form Marxists, that doesn't make them Socialists or Communists. You can believe in Marx's completely valid and accurate criticisms of Capitalism without inherently believing in the alternative. I believe a real step to the solution would be worker cooperatives, workers are more productive in them and they're happier. They're less likely to fail in the first 5-10 years. It's more democratic. A good step in the right directio.n |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 18:37:05 GMT
Undoubtedly it does- but it’s not the only factor and hey, if there was enough housing stock that wouldn’t be a problem right? And when did we stop building social housing and who started that policy? There was no housing problem before Thatcher and she in turn was around long before mass migration so blame her before you blame Johnny asylum seeker, although obviously Johnny asylum seeker has not helped. It’s not just Johnny Asylum seeker though, is it? Johnny Asylum seeker is an infinitesimally small number compared to the millions let into the country by the Blair asshole and membership of the EU. You keep on about the Tories selling off council houses. That was a stupid policy, but the intention was good as they were trying to give people the chance to own their own home. However there wasn’t a flood of people being allowed into the country at the time. Your Labour friends were responsible for that. Seeing as the useless wankers had 12 years in power, don’t you think they should have built the social housing required to house the million of predominantly poor people without a hope in hell of buying their own property? The policy was good and the intention was obvious and a good idea, home ownership is far more efficient use of money than renting and cheaper so therefore better for the individual and the economy But I don’t know how you can let Thatcher off the hook so easily for not building- it seems your allegiance to your ideology is triumphing over your rationality. I’ve no great love for Blair apart from his public spending. There is a reason why Thatcher is on record as claiming her greatest invention was Tony Blair (or words to that effect). So yes, Blair absolutely dropped a bollock by not increasing the housing stock. But then in some ways *not* increasing the housing stock and stimulating house prices was a new labour thing to do. It really fell of a cliff with the coalition though who not only built much less than the numbers Labour did, but they also introduced policies to boost the prices of existing stock and create the bubble that we have now as outlined by oldie. I wish you would be more critical of the tax evasion that goes on though, as well as all the money paid out from the public purse on housing benefit and government contracts that produce nothing in return. You seem to wilfully ignore all that. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 18:47:09 GMT
So you’ve no problem with brits moving to Europe to live but don’t want Europeans moving here to live ? Makes sense...... in the warped mind of a brexit voter. I believe there is a total of perhaps 600,000 Brits living in Europe. The majority of whom are well-off, probably retired and with the financial wherewithal to support themselves. They went there for the climate and to live in a less crowded environment. For example, France and Spain have about 6 times the land mass Of the UK with considerably less than twice our population.Let’s face it, no Brit would go to Europe to claim benefits, they'd get told to F off. Also, the migration from here has been gradual and managed, they certainly didn’t make their way there en mass, by the plane and coach load.To the tune of 3 million. So you’re not really comparing like for like, are you? Which is is an unfortunate symptom of being a Remainer. Why would Europeans come here to claim benefits? Our welfare state is one of the worst in Europe not least because we are a small tax small welfare state country. Statistically European migrants are not only small in number but they are net contributors, they add value to our economy. Brexit might lock them out but we are still going to be left with the migrants from places like Syria and Iraq who are in net deficit, so they harm our economy and they come over in vastly bigger numbers than the Europeans. It’s like trying to stop a burglar who is out on license from re-offending by cutting his tag off. |
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Post by yattongas on Oct 26, 2020 18:54:23 GMT
So you’ve no problem with brits moving to Europe to live but don’t want Europeans moving here to live ? Makes sense...... in the warped mind of a brexit voter. I believe there is a total of perhaps 600,000 Brits living in Europe. The majority of whom are well-off, probably retired and with the financial wherewithal to support themselves. They went there for the climate and to live in a less crowded environment. For example, France and Spain have about 6 times the land mass Of the UK with considerably less than twice our population.Let’s face it, no Brit would go to Europe to claim benefits, they'd get told to F off. Also, the migration from here has been gradual and managed, they certainly didn’t make their way there en mass, by the plane and coach load.To the tune of 3 million. So you’re not really comparing like for like, are you? Which is is an unfortunate symptom of being a Remainer. According to the UN data 2019 it’s 1.3 million brits living in Europe . Also more brits are of working age than over 65 .... at least 2/1 . Population of UK 66m France 67m Spain 47m got anymore Trump facts you want to chuck in the ring Oldgas ? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 19:35:02 GMT
365
"One question, don’t the government have some hand in setting the interest rate? It appears to have been set artificially low since time immemorial to avoid the sort of housing bust that we saw in America in the mid 2000’s."
No.
The Governor of the BoE is set parameters to work within. He then sets the actual rate. The primary parameter was to maintain inflation at 2%.
As a result of the financial meltdown in 2008 the Bank supported the markets by buying back government bonds (GILTS) to replace the liquidity lost and sucked out of those markets. AKA Quantiative Easing. In addition they bought new issue Government bonds thereafter to support government spending.
Mark Carney during this period became a much more activist Governor, stating publicly that he would support demand in the economy (revising bank capital ratios for eg) and more latterly before he left talking of being most aware of the employment levels.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 19:54:16 GMT
Thought oldgas was just going to lurk these threads now instead of posting bait?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 20:01:19 GMT
Thought oldgas was just going to lurk these threads now instead of posting bait? He clearly has a problem doesn't he. Personally, all for a good discussion with people of opposing views, but it appears he doesn't have view, it's just baiting and trolling. |
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Post by yattongas on Oct 26, 2020 20:07:30 GMT
Thought oldgas was just going to lurk these threads now instead of posting bait? He gets rinsed every time ...... not sure why he bothers |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 20:08:06 GMT
Thought oldgas was just going to lurk these threads now instead of posting bait? He clearly has a problem doesn't he. Personally, all for a good discussion with people of opposing views, but it appears he doesn't have view, it's just baiting and trolling. I thought he tried to engage earlier, to be fair. Unless people think his comments on immigration are wind up attempts and not his actual views? |
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Post by inee on Oct 26, 2020 20:16:52 GMT
Quite educational all this.... I always though a Marxist was someone who went into central Bristol and came home with a dodgy shirt/tie combo and a £10 meal deal.... Nah thats a shithead |
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Post by Gastafari on Oct 26, 2020 23:33:10 GMT
Considering he’s based in France, I highly doubt it  Although, without wanting to make any assumptions about FG’s life, I can only assume you’re quite happy living in the most socialist country in Europe, considering you’re right wing? That’s what I dislike most about the hatred of a big welfare state- it’s so bloody hypocritical because the right wing are the first in line with their hand out when the going gets tough. They just hate that others are in the queue with them. On other forums I’ve seen posters who have previously slagged off those on benefits now crying in shock about how little you get because they lost their jobs in the pandemic. Some have even been brazen enough to demand that benefits are increased just for the duration of the pandemic- ie for as long as it’s convenient for them then they can go back to hating the very idea of it. A lot of right wingers have been bitten on the ass by the sort of lifestyle people who are stuck on benefits (or those on the NMW topped up by benefits) have been living and they don’t bloody like it when it’s their turn. For me it's not hatred of a big welfare state, it's the hatred of a dependency for it. I think we agreed on it on the George Floyd thread, where I stated that the Welfare State in America has a lot to answer for, in regards to the amount of people now living in single parent households, which has had a knock on effect to a lot of factors through the dependency on Welfare. If people fall on difficult times, as we are currently seeing, through effects of a pandemic, or genuine health reasons there should absolutely be a safety net, but it should never be more of an incentive to not work, and you certainly should not be incentivised for being a lazy bastard. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 0:39:24 GMT
That’s what I dislike most about the hatred of a big welfare state- it’s so bloody hypocritical because the right wing are the first in line with their hand out when the going gets tough. They just hate that others are in the queue with them. On other forums I’ve seen posters who have previously slagged off those on benefits now crying in shock about how little you get because they lost their jobs in the pandemic. Some have even been brazen enough to demand that benefits are increased just for the duration of the pandemic- ie for as long as it’s convenient for them then they can go back to hating the very idea of it. A lot of right wingers have been bitten on the ass by the sort of lifestyle people who are stuck on benefits (or those on the NMW topped up by benefits) have been living and they don’t bloody like it when it’s their turn. For me it's not hatred of a big welfare state, it's the hatred of a dependency for it. I think we agreed on it on the George Floyd thread, where I stated that the Welfare State in America has a lot to answer for, in regards to the amount of people now living in single parent households, which has had a knock on effect to a lot of factors through the dependency on Welfare. If people fall on difficult times, as we are currently seeing, through effects of a pandemic, or genuine health reasons there should absolutely be a safety net, but it should never be more of an incentive to not work, and you certainly should not be incentivised for being a lazy bastard. The question is, why can you end up in a situation where it pays not to work? Is it because benefits pays a king’s ransom that you can live a fine old life on? Given that our welfare state is the most miserly in Europe I would say no (apart from in extreme cases). The issue is that wages for the low skilled are so poor that a sh** benefits system can easily compete with it. That’s the problem. I believe it was Tony Blair who introduced the minimum wage, on the face of it a fine idea but I’ve seen some arguments of late that it has driven down competition for wages and so has turned out to be a real boon for corporations who get cheap labour which the state then subsidises with benefit top ups to help the worker pay their rent. The worker is the biggest loser because the minimum wage can create a wealth gap that they can’t escape because wages are stagnant. I believe the Tories even made things worse by reducing the benefits that workers on the minimum wage get. There is also the issue of child care, I’ve heard of people who if they were to work would have to pay for child care, once that child care is taken from their wages they are left with bugger all whereas if they stay at home on benefits they save the cost of child care and thereby make more money than if they worked. In some ways I can’t blame them- it’s an issue with cost of child care which is right up there with housing in terms of extortion. Although nobody forces anyone to have kids. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 8:23:01 GMT
That’s what I dislike most about the hatred of a big welfare state- it’s so bloody hypocritical because the right wing are the first in line with their hand out when the going gets tough. They just hate that others are in the queue with them. On other forums I’ve seen posters who have previously slagged off those on benefits now crying in shock about how little you get because they lost their jobs in the pandemic. Some have even been brazen enough to demand that benefits are increased just for the duration of the pandemic- ie for as long as it’s convenient for them then they can go back to hating the very idea of it. A lot of right wingers have been bitten on the ass by the sort of lifestyle people who are stuck on benefits (or those on the NMW topped up by benefits) have been living and they don’t bloody like it when it’s their turn. For me it's not hatred of a big welfare state, it's the hatred of a dependency for it. I think we agreed on it on the George Floyd thread, where I stated that the Welfare State in America has a lot to answer for, in regards to the amount of people now living in single parent households, which has had a knock on effect to a lot of factors through the dependency on Welfare. If people fall on difficult times, as we are currently seeing, through effects of a pandemic, or genuine health reasons there should absolutely be a safety net, but it should never be more of an incentive to not work, and you certainly should not be incentivised for being a lazy bastard. The walfare state certainly needs modernising, UBI probably one of the best ideas yet. What are conservatives doing to fix the problem of your "lazy bastards"? |
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 27, 2020 9:20:52 GMT
For me it's not hatred of a big welfare state, it's the hatred of a dependency for it. I think we agreed on it on the George Floyd thread, where I stated that the Welfare State in America has a lot to answer for, in regards to the amount of people now living in single parent households, which has had a knock on effect to a lot of factors through the dependency on Welfare. If people fall on difficult times, as we are currently seeing, through effects of a pandemic, or genuine health reasons there should absolutely be a safety net, but it should never be more of an incentive to not work, and you certainly should not be incentivised for being a lazy bastard. The walfare state certainly needs modernising, UBI probably one of the best ideas yet. What are conservatives doing to fix the problem of your "lazy bastards"? I would be surprised if anyone would argue that the founding principles of the Welfare State were not akin to the values of post war Britain however,our values and culture have in the intervening 70 years altered dramatically. Our economy has also moved from heavy industry/manufacturing to Service/consumer driven underpinned by a massive increase in Consumer borrowing ,this has in my view significantly changed the attitude of the individual as to what the State should provide and I think we have become much more "needy"as a society,this has changed the demands on Welfare/Health provision and both have not kept pace with change. It needs a full reconstruction and clear thinking about what is the States responsibility however,the bolt ons and fads of various governments have only succeded in confusion and insufficient resources to deliver the services demanded. I would favour going back to core principles, funding those properly and then having an adult conversation with all of us about what else should the state deliver and how we pay for it. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 9:29:46 GMT
The walfare state certainly needs modernising, UBI probably one of the best ideas yet. What are conservatives doing to fix the problem of your "lazy bastards"? I would be surprised if anyone would argue that the founding principles of the Welfare State were not akin to the values of post war Britain however,our values and culture have in the intervening 70 years altered dramatically. Our economy has also moved from heavy industry/manufacturing to Service/consumer driven underpinned by a massive increase in Consumer borrowing ,this has in my view significantly changed the attitude of the individual as to what the State should provide and I think we have become much more "needy"as a society,this has changed the demands on Welfare/Health provision and both have not kept pace with change. It needs a full reconstruction and clear thinking about what is the States responsibility however,the bolt ons and fads of various governments have only succeded in confusion and insufficient resources to deliver the services demanded. I would favour going back to core principles, funding those properly and then having an adult conversation with all of us about what else should the state deliver and how we pay for it. Agree to a certain extent, but society is organised from the top down so many have zero faith a just resolution. I grew up in a very poor area so I know first hand the absolute trap of low education & low paid jobs. Crime & drugs are actually the only way out of that situation for a lot of people. |
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Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 9:42:05 GMT
Thought oldgas was just going to lurk these threads now instead of posting bait? He gets rinsed every time ...... not sure why he bothers Do I? In your heads maybe, but an 80 seat majority suggests otherwise. |
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