|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 1, 2021 13:34:08 GMT
Yeah, you’ve said this a few times now. We read it the first time, but thanks for repeating. I’m not sure how what you’ve said has any relevance to what I was asking blueridge.. I haven’t read the report/highlights yet, but as I said earlier (which you conveniently ignored) who’s report do we believe? The internal Tory report says there is no institutional racism across the entire UK. The NHS did a report on institutional racism and found evidence of it. Who’s correct? Let’s just take a look at the internal investigations this week: racism? All good. Policing at vigil? All good. Jennifer Arcuri getting public money? All good. Cameron’s lobbying? All good. Funny that. From what I’ve read on the thread that I agree with is that UK institutions are no longer deliberately set up to be racist. But what makes an institution racist? If senior leadership at a firm are not promoting/employing candidates because of their last names being of African heritage, is that institutional racism or individual racism? You could give him the winning lottery numbers and he'd still say they were wrong. If they were given to me by somebody like you, then I would certainly validate them first. Of course 🙂 |
|
|
|
Post by oldgas on Apr 1, 2021 19:11:22 GMT
So the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities report has found that concerns the UK is institutionally racist are not borne out by the evidence. Also "The Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities, set up after Black Lives Matter protests, found social class and family structure had a bigger impact on how people's lives turned out." Surprise, surprise. As ever, facts and evidence will quash victimhood and false narratives. So, yes Racism exists, in all corners of the globe, unfortunately. But "Systemic" or "Institutional" racism in the UK, just like the US, is a modern day, myth. But of course, race sells so turning everything into a racial issue will create headlines and push people towards certain narratives. www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-56585538So the report says racial discrimination is mainly an effect of class society. And you were one of those screaming that BLM is just a Marxist organisation? Tories are all over the place, making it up as they go pal. Quite clearly that isn’t what it’s saying. The biggest barrier to being successful in this country is culture. Certain cultures unfortunately predict failure in life. It is possible for some to escape the effect of their culture, such as the man who wrote this report. However that doesn’t suit the apologists and so now a huge row has broken out, and you have idiots like Starmer shouting his mouth off about even more legislation to assist with social engineering and gerrymandering. As usual he’s playing to the noisy minority. Good on him. With him in charge Labour have no chance of government and the Conservatives can continue rolling back the frontiers of socialism. Good old Maggie, what a woman! |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Apr 1, 2021 19:47:17 GMT
So the report says racial discrimination is mainly an effect of class society. And you were one of those screaming that BLM is just a Marxist organisation? Tories are all over the place, making it up as they go pal. Quite clearly that isn’t what it’s saying. The biggest barrier to being successful in this country is culture. Certain cultures unfortunately predict failure in life. It is possible for some to escape the effect of their culture, such as the man who wrote this report. However that doesn’t suit the apologists and so now a huge row has broken out, and you have idiots like Starmer shouting his mouth off about even more legislation to assist with social engineering and gerrymandering. As usual he’s playing to the noisy minority. Good on him. With him in charge Labour have no chance of government and the Conservatives can continue rolling back the frontiers of socialism. Good old Maggie, what a woman! Jesus Christ....😂😂😂 |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Apr 1, 2021 20:24:17 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 1, 2021 21:47:50 GMT
You're right, it is funny. It's side splittingly funny, because it's a load of absolute garbage. Quite a few points that are easy to quash. 1."Because you can’t say Britain is “structurally” racist, just because one person describes black people as “piccaninnies with watermelon smiles”, or Muslim women as looking like letter boxes. These are simply the words of one person, doing a normal job, which in this case is the prime minister. Yes, those Boris Johnson quotes aren't great, but this 'Structural Racism' hasn't stopped Diane Abbott or David Lammy from being senior MP's, and if it wasn't for Labour being an embarrassment they may very well of been in power themselves. It didn't stop James Cleverly being Chairman of the Tory party, it hasn't stopped Rishi Sunak, Priti Patel and others becoming senior MP's either. Come on. 2. "The report dealt with black people’s incomes being so much lower on average than white people’s wages. It concluded this wasn’t because of racism but due to black people living in poorer areas" Um, Yeah couldn't be bothered to go into detail about the data which goes into the different demographics. Just lump all the Black people together without looking into the different demographics in detail. Very convenient. 3. "I expect this also applies to why black people are more likely to be detained by the police" Well, as annoying and unpleasant as it is to be stopped by the Police, which I have experience of, it's sensible to look at the reasons why. Yes certain Black people are disproportionately stopped, searched and detained in certain Towns and Cities, but in those certain Towns and Cities they are disproportionately involved in certain types of Crime. It's not rocket science. Just a load of guff which again highlights my point about the “institutional racism” say it enough and bang the Drum, people will lap it up, without taking any interest in the evidence. |
|
yattongas
Forum Legend
Posts: 15,569 
Member is Online
|
Post by yattongas on Apr 1, 2021 22:38:18 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Apr 2, 2021 6:21:38 GMT
You're right, it is funny. It's side splittingly funny, because it's a load of absolute garbage. Quite a few points that are easy to quash. 1."Because you can’t say Britain is “structurally” racist, just because one person describes black people as “piccaninnies with watermelon smiles”, or Muslim women as looking like letter boxes. These are simply the words of one person, doing a normal job, which in this case is the prime minister. Yes, those Boris Johnson quotes aren't great, but this 'Structural Racism' hasn't stopped Diane Abbott or David Lammy from being senior MP's, and if it wasn't for Labour being an embarrassment they may very well of been in power themselves. It didn't stop James Cleverly being Chairman of the Tory party, it hasn't stopped Rishi Sunak, Priti Patel and others becoming senior MP's either. Come on. 2. "The report dealt with black people’s incomes being so much lower on average than white people’s wages. It concluded this wasn’t because of racism but due to black people living in poorer areas" Um, Yeah couldn't be bothered to go into detail about the data which goes into the different demographics. Just lump all the Black people together without looking into the different demographics in detail. Very convenient. 3. "I expect this also applies to why black people are more likely to be detained by the police" Well, as annoying and unpleasant as it is to be stopped by the Police, which I have experience of, it's sensible to look at the reasons why. Yes certain Black people are disproportionately stopped, searched and detained in certain Towns and Cities, but in those certain Towns and Cities they are disproportionately involved in certain types of Crime. It's not rocket science. Just a load of guff which again highlights my point about the “institutional racism” say it enough and bang the Drum, people will lap it up, without taking any interest in the evidence. It's humour Gastafari, a "Sketch" piece. The fact that actual events are quoted makes it funnier, more provocative. Not intended to be funny is this response by two academics. Food for thought? theconversation.com/race-commission-report-the-rights-and-wrongs-158316 |
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 2, 2021 8:53:40 GMT
You're right, it is funny. It's side splittingly funny, because it's a load of absolute garbage. Quite a few points that are easy to quash. 1."Because you can’t say Britain is “structurally” racist, just because one person describes black people as “piccaninnies with watermelon smiles”, or Muslim women as looking like letter boxes. These are simply the words of one person, doing a normal job, which in this case is the prime minister. Yes, those Boris Johnson quotes aren't great, but this 'Structural Racism' hasn't stopped Diane Abbott or David Lammy from being senior MP's, and if it wasn't for Labour being an embarrassment they may very well of been in power themselves. It didn't stop James Cleverly being Chairman of the Tory party, it hasn't stopped Rishi Sunak, Priti Patel and others becoming senior MP's either. Come on. 2. "The report dealt with black people’s incomes being so much lower on average than white people’s wages. It concluded this wasn’t because of racism but due to black people living in poorer areas" Um, Yeah couldn't be bothered to go into detail about the data which goes into the different demographics. Just lump all the Black people together without looking into the different demographics in detail. Very convenient. 3. "I expect this also applies to why black people are more likely to be detained by the police" Well, as annoying and unpleasant as it is to be stopped by the Police, which I have experience of, it's sensible to look at the reasons why. Yes certain Black people are disproportionately stopped, searched and detained in certain Towns and Cities, but in those certain Towns and Cities they are disproportionately involved in certain types of Crime. It's not rocket science. Just a load of guff which again highlights my point about the “institutional racism” say it enough and bang the Drum, people will lap it up, without taking any interest in the evidence. It's humour Gastafari, a "Sketch" piece. The fact that actual events are quoted makes it funnier, more provocative. Not intended to be funny is this response by two academics. Food for thought? theconversation.com/race-commission-report-the-rights-and-wrongs-158316No, it isn't. It's a race hustling, piece of garbage. Just writing a load of tosh, to appease and to pretend to care, but refuse to discuss the issues. There are too many self serving idiots that are making a living off race. |
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 2, 2021 9:16:03 GMT
Again a poorly written piece, hardly surprising from The Guardian. Just a couple of soundbites from Doreen Lawrence, without any context. This perfect example: "So those who sit behind this report [saying] that racism doesn’t exist or it no longer exists need to speak to the young boys who are stopped and searched constantly on the street. They need to speak to those young people" Nobody has said that Racism doesn't exist!!! For the umpteenth time. The report openly states that it does, its just that "Institutional racism“ is used too liberally” and that factors such as socioeconomic background, culture and religion had a “more significant impact on life chances”. So many people failing to grasp that. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Apr 2, 2021 10:12:22 GMT
No, it isn't. It's a race hustling, piece of garbage. Just writing a load of tosh, to appease and to pretend to care, but refuse to discuss the issues. There are too many self serving idiots that are making a living off race. Oh dear. What next, after suppressing dissent, the government will censor comedy?? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 10:18:15 GMT
So the report says racial discrimination is mainly an effect of class society. And you were one of those screaming that BLM is just a Marxist organisation? Tories are all over the place, making it up as they go pal. Quite clearly that isn’t what it’s saying. The biggest barrier to being successful in this country is culture. Certain cultures unfortunately predict failure in life. It is possible for some to escape the effect of their culture, such as the man who wrote this report. However that doesn’t suit the apologists and so now a huge row has broken out, and you have idiots like Starmer shouting his mouth off about even more legislation to assist with social engineering and gerrymandering. As usual he’s playing to the noisy minority. Good on him. With him in charge Labour have no chance of government and the Conservatives can continue rolling back the frontiers of socialism. Good old Maggie, what a woman! |
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 2, 2021 10:26:33 GMT
No, it isn't. It's a race hustling, piece of garbage. Just writing a load of tosh, to appease and to pretend to care, but refuse to discuss the issues. There are too many self serving idiots that are making a living off race. Oh dear. What next, after suppressing dissent, the government will censor comedy?? C'mon Oldie. Oh mention the KKK and Apartheid South Africa, to be 'provocative' in your words. It's garbage. It's just another self serving 'Comedian' making a career out of race and being 'Woke' looking to appease. Edit: I haven't said anything about Censoring 'Comedy'. Just pointing out what a load of old twaddle it is |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Apr 2, 2021 10:56:30 GMT
Oh dear. What next, after suppressing dissent, the government will censor comedy?? C'mon Oldie. Oh mention the KKK and Apartheid South Africa, to be 'provocative' in your words. It's garbage. It's just another self serving 'Comedian' making a career out of race and being 'Woke' looking to appease. Edit: I haven't said anything about Censoring 'Comedy'. Just pointing out what a load of old twaddle it is Most comedy is made up irreverent comment. The KKK comment was in the context of if you asked if they were racist what sort of reply do you expect. Therefore if you appoint a commission whose members have publicly stated that there is no institutional racism, what outcome in their report do you expect. Context is everything here. I note that Johnson's point man on race has resigned, I note also that some of the named sources in the report have objected vehemently to having their names used. An ex senior police officer from the met was interviewed on R4 this morning, someone who had been asked to take part in the review, describe the process as a farce. Finally I see you have not commented on the joint response made by the two academics I linked to from The Conversation. |
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 2, 2021 11:25:23 GMT
C'mon Oldie. Oh mention the KKK and Apartheid South Africa, to be 'provocative' in your words. It's garbage. It's just another self serving 'Comedian' making a career out of race and being 'Woke' looking to appease. Edit: I haven't said anything about Censoring 'Comedy'. Just pointing out what a load of old twaddle it is Most comedy is made up irreverent comment. The KKK comment was in the context of if you asked if they were racist what sort of reply do you expect. Therefore if you appoint a commission whose members have publicly stated that there is no institutional racism, what outcome in their report do you expect. Context is everything here. I note that Johnson's point man on race has resigned, I note also that some of the named sources in the report have objected vehemently to having their names used. An ex senior police officer from the met was interviewed on R4 this morning, someone who had been asked to take part in the review, describe the process as a farce. Finally I see you have not commented on the joint response made by the two academics I linked to from The Conversation. Again it was just using the KKK and Apartheid South Africa 2 horrific examples, to 'provoke'. Just use an organisation that hung Blacks from Tree's in America and Segregation in South Africa to appease, which has zero correlation to this report. It's garbage, Oldie. The report is very balanced and nuanced, the people who bang on about 'Equality' dont want equality at all, it's obvious because a commission of people which come from different ethnic backgrounds is now being scutinised by those very same people, because the report found it doesn't equate to their narrative. The wrong type, clearly. As previously stated this 'Institutional racism' hasn't stopped them becoming Dr's, Scientists, professors and academics, just like it hasn't stopped Diane Abbott or David Lammy becoming senior MP's,who are 2 of the main mouthpieces banging the 'institutional racism' drum, it hasn't stopped the ghastly race baiters Femi Oluwole and Ash Sarkar spouting their bile, it hasn't stopped James Cleverly, Rishi Sunak and Priti Patel being Senior MP's either. The above applies to your article from the 2 academics. Again, The report states racism is a problem that still exists. It's just that 'Institutional racism' isn't the main factor. For the umpteenth time. I see you haven't commented on some of things I've posted on this subject. Maybe because you can't answer them. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Apr 2, 2021 13:30:21 GMT
Most comedy is made up irreverent comment. The KKK comment was in the context of if you asked if they were racist what sort of reply do you expect. Therefore if you appoint a commission whose members have publicly stated that there is no institutional racism, what outcome in their report do you expect. Context is everything here. I note that Johnson's point man on race has resigned, I note also that some of the named sources in the report have objected vehemently to having their names used. An ex senior police officer from the met was interviewed on R4 this morning, someone who had been asked to take part in the review, describe the process as a farce. Finally I see you have not commented on the joint response made by the two academics I linked to from The Conversation. Again it was just using the KKK and Apartheid South Africa 2 horrific examples, to 'provoke'. Just use an organisation that hung Blacks from Tree's in America and Segregation in South Africa to appease, which has zero correlation to this report. It's garbage, Oldie. The report is very balanced and nuanced, the people who bang on about 'Equality' dont want equality at all, it's obvious because a commission of people which come from different ethnic backgrounds is now being scutinised by those very same people, because the report found it doesn't equate to their narrative. The wrong type, clearly. As previously stated this 'Institutional racism' hasn't stopped them becoming Dr's, Scientists, professors and academics, just like it hasn't stopped Diane Abbott or David Lammy becoming senior MP's,who are 2 of the main mouthpieces banging the 'institutional racism' drum, it hasn't stopped the ghastly race baiters Femi Oluwole and Ash Sarkar spouting their bile, it hasn't stopped James Cleverly, Rishi Sunak and Priti Patel being Senior MP's either. The above applies to your article from the 2 academics. Again, The report states racism is a problem that still exists. It's just that 'Institutional racism' isn't the main factor. For the umpteenth time. I see you haven't commented on some of things I've posted on this subject. Maybe because you can't answer them. At some point in a debate it comes to a dead end. Which I think this has. My current view, in particular with regard to this latest report is nicely captured by the words written by the two academics, from the article in The Conversation. "From start to finish, the race commission puts huge emphasis on the “agency” of people from racial and ethnic minority groups, explaining away racial inequalities based on the choices of certain groups, or in favour of other social factors like class. Despite the findings of other reports, it suggests that hate crime isn’t worsening but that perceptions of an increase have been influenced by internet trolling. It claims that the term “BAME” should be abandoned because it obscures specific issues among different groups; and that structural racism in work, education and elsewhere is hard to prove. This finding on structural racism runs contrary to earlier findings such as the 1999 Macpherson inquiry report into the murder of Stephen Lawrence and other more recent evidence that is yet to be adequately addressed. Perhaps the most blatant issue is the report’s reliance on tactics that the government appears to have employed time and again: using Black and Asian representatives to minimise the credibility of racism in its many forms. The commission was handpicked by Munira Mirza, the director of the Number 10 Policy Unit, who has been said to dismiss institutional racism as “a perception more than a reality”. The commission’s chair, Tony Sewell, has previously dismissed the existence of systemic racism. Co-author Samir Shah has expressed similar views, and so has Mercy Muroki. Another member, Dambisa Moyo, is in favour of ending foreign aid to Africa because it creates a dependency culture. And Kemi Badenoch, the minister for equalities that the commission directly reports to, has also previously denied the existence of systemic racism. It is of little surprise then than institutional racism has been dismissed in the evaluation of the commission’s findings." Yep. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Apr 2, 2021 17:33:48 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Apr 2, 2021 22:40:18 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 3, 2021 1:19:25 GMT
Christ. Talk about Gaslighting. 100% of people who die from prostate cancer are Male. That must be 'Institutional sexism' towards Males. Yet again, what a load of absolute garbage. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Apr 3, 2021 7:36:24 GMT
Christ. Talk about Gaslighting. 100% of people who die from prostate cancer are Male. That must be 'Institutional sexism' towards Males. Yet again, what a load of absolute garbage. Ummmmm You cant die from Prostate Cancer unless you are male. Damaging your credibility here Gastafari. What did you think of David Olusoga's article? |
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 3, 2021 9:29:21 GMT
Christ. Talk about Gaslighting. 100% of people who die from prostate cancer are Male. That must be 'Institutional sexism' towards Males. Yet again, what a load of absolute garbage. Ummmmm You cant die from Prostate Cancer unless you are male. Damaging your credibility here Gastafari. What did you think of David Olusoga's article? Ok then. What % of the people who died from Covid were over 60? Or were disabled or had previous healh issues? Must be 'institutionally ageist' or 'institutionally discrimitory towards Disability' It's nonsense Oldie, and yet again doesn't even attempt to delve into other factors which I brought up replying to Gassy, which were "that specific demographics are disproportionately likely to die from Covid, again there will be a variety of reasons for that. It could have something to do with underlying health conditions in those communities; or type of jobs members of that community disproportionately perform(i.e Drs and Nurses and other NHS staff) or with their household arrangements and social habits" Also the same applies "to the evidence/statistics of the demographics we've already gone through, i.e Carribean backgrounds as a 'group' perform less well in regards to education, as a group they're also the highest when it comes to % of living in Single parent households which is over 60%" As of yet, nobody has been able to answer it. Funny that. Because the evidence rips to shred your narrative, perhaps? In regards to David Olusogas article, he made some fair points, but also a lot of it is again just nonsense. The bit where he starts talking about the terms 'BAME' and especially 'Ethnic Minorities' where he states it's "a phrase that groups together disparate communities in exactly the same way". Well tell that to the publication he's writing the article for, tell it to idiots like the 'Comedian' Mark Steel who you posted a link from who do it for cheap laughs, to 'provoke' and to 'appease' tell it to the other person who you posted a tweet from quoting that 95% figure, or the people from bma.org where the initial source came from, who literally use the terms in every other word. Christ, this is what I've been saying all along, delve deeper into the data and the demographics and it tells you a completely different story, and is what the Commission’s report also does. Again, it wont suit your narrative though, will it? Yet you want to aim at me that I'm damaging my credibility? Honestly. |
|
