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Post by Quarters on Sept 15, 2024 17:05:50 GMT
Injuries or desperate. Most likely the former. Never said anything different. One injury. Two because they were losing. But you stated good managers don't do this. |
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Post by igotgas on Sept 15, 2024 17:11:51 GMT
Injuries or desperate. Most likely the former. Never said anything different. One injury. Two because they were losing. But you stated good managers don't do this. You’d really help yourself if you could read. What I said was “I will never understand a manager who makes subs at half time. He’s basically saying I can’t help you with any information or expectation and so I’ll just swap players and see if one’s better. You rarely if ever see the best managers do it. It screams “I dont know how to improve this”. The essence of managing / coaching would be to identify how that player can improve and how the team can improve by doing certain things better and then to give them the opportunity to carry that out” |
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 15, 2024 17:21:47 GMT
To be fair to MT if he'd kept the same players on you'd have probably posted that MT is so out of his depth he didn't even make any changes at half time.
Changing to 4-4-2 seemed an obvious move and he could only do that by bringing on CT & SS, typically the players just plodded on as they did in the first half.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 15, 2024 17:25:03 GMT
What evidence is there on MT's CV he can turn things around at a L1 club, he managed Exeter for just 11 games in L1 after they were promoted. At Rotherham he failed hopelessly after he spent £1m+ in the summer. Last season we were doing OK under Mangan then hopelessly lost our way under MT, this season we're doing no better in recent games. Where's the next win coming from in these league games? Posh (A) Wycombe Charlton Burton (A) Blackpool Huddersfield (A) The easiest looking game is probably Wycombe but we rarely beat them at the Mem and they'll just love the way we defend set pieces. What are you calling for Topper , the manager being sacked just a few games after assembling an almost totally new squad and all the turmoil that would bring? This place is fűcking crazy sometimes! 😂🙄 It seems to be working for Blackpool, if I was the VP I'd tell MT he needed to get vastly improved performances at Posh and Wycombe or he'd have to seriously consider his position. According to Dan Hargreaves Ward was only rested yesterday so hopefully he'll return next week and C Taylor will start and actually play to his full ability. |
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Post by igotgas on Sept 15, 2024 17:27:28 GMT
To be fair to MT if he'd kept the same players on you'd have probably posted that MT is so out of his depth he didn't even make any changes at half time. Changing to 4-4-2 seemed an obvious move and he could only do that by bringing on CT & SS, typically the players just plodded on as they did in the first half. Not sure if that’s aimed at me but no I wouldn’t have. I’ve already said quite clearly I didn’t agree with the subs at half time and so it proved as it got worse not better. At the risk of being pedantic we changed to 4231 with Ruel and SS moving wide and LT going as the 10….but granted I always feel that’s not far removed from being a 442. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 15, 2024 18:17:44 GMT
To be fair to MT if he'd kept the same players on you'd have probably posted that MT is so out of his depth he didn't even make any changes at half time. Changing to 4-4-2 seemed an obvious move and he could only do that by bringing on CT & SS, typically the players just plodded on as they did in the first half. Not sure if that’s aimed at me but no I wouldn’t have. I’ve already said quite clearly I didn’t agree with the subs at half time and so it proved as it got worse not better. At the risk of being pedantic we changed to 4231 with Ruel and SS moving wide and LT going as the 10….but granted I always feel that’s not far removed from being a 442. You must be in the minority if you thought the starting 11 all deserved to all start the 2nd half, if nothing else it sent a message to them that the first 45 mins simply wasn't good enough. Although you do wonder if they really cared. |
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Post by igotgas on Sept 15, 2024 18:34:56 GMT
Not sure if that’s aimed at me but no I wouldn’t have. I’ve already said quite clearly I didn’t agree with the subs at half time and so it proved as it got worse not better. At the risk of being pedantic we changed to 4231 with Ruel and SS moving wide and LT going as the 10….but granted I always feel that’s not far removed from being a 442. You must be in the minority if you thought the starting 11 all deserved to all start the 2nd half, if nothing else it sent a message to them that the first 45 mins simply wasn't good enough. Although you do wonder if they really cared. As I’ve said, take away the defending for two set pieces I’m not sure he’d have been that unhappy if he’d gone in 0-0 and I dont think fans would’ve either. The problem with thinking it was so bad and so much wrong is you could argue any single one of the 11 could’ve come off and that then leans to just singling out the easiest targets. I always think the managers who have big characters, when they want to send a message to a group they do so by using the bigger names on the squad and making an example of them. That would really have made people sit up and take notice. |
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Post by e4bandrobinstubbs on Sept 15, 2024 18:35:40 GMT
Saturday's result: Bristol Rovers 0, Bristol Rovers 4.
We gave them the goals on a plate.
Regroup, get a firecracker up their jacksies (exept Mola who was good) and get at 'em, starting at the Posh.
Message to the players: "get over it, and be quick about it".
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Post by Quarters on Sept 15, 2024 18:36:44 GMT
One injury. Two because they were losing. But you stated good managers don't do this. You’d really help yourself if you could read. What I said was “I will never understand a manager who makes subs at half time. He’s basically saying I can’t help you with any information or expectation and so I’ll just swap players and see if one’s better. You rarely if ever see the best managers do it. It screams “I dont know how to improve this”. The essence of managing / coaching would be to identify how that player can improve and how the team can improve by doing certain things better and then to give them the opportunity to carry that out” Sorry still don't get your point. Newcastle made 3 subs at half time only one due to injury. One sub scored and another provided an assist. They were one nil down and won two one. You state you do not understand managers making half time subs. But you could be saying Howe is not a good manager. |
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Post by igotgas on Sept 15, 2024 18:47:40 GMT
You’d really help yourself if you could read. What I said was “I will never understand a manager who makes subs at half time. He’s basically saying I can’t help you with any information or expectation and so I’ll just swap players and see if one’s better. You rarely if ever see the best managers do it. It screams “I dont know how to improve this”. The essence of managing / coaching would be to identify how that player can improve and how the team can improve by doing certain things better and then to give them the opportunity to carry that out” Sorry still don't get your point. Newcastle made 3 subs at half time only one due to injury. One sub scored and another provided an assist. They were one nil down and won two one. You state you do not understand managers making half time subs. But you could be saying Howe is not a good manager. Well no you won’t understand my point because you’re making an assumption of what I said rather than what I actually said and then you’re basing your argument on one example. It’s quite unusual which is why I said “rarely if ever”. That doesn’t mean it doesnt happen ffs 🤦♂️🤷♂️ I also said the “best managers” rarely do it. I’m sure there are examples of ones that have though. My argument was based on that it screams desperate but of course there will be times when a manager genuinely identifies an issue. My guess is today that Eddie Howe spotted something that wasn’t working, or that Wolves had done something different to the pre match analysis carried out or that possibly the injury meant a change of shape that meant other subs also were needed. Of course you’re going to be judged on the success of that so Howes seems to have spotted something and corrected it. On the other hand, we got worse after the break and nothing really changed in terms of stopping Wigan having success so that just screamed desperate to me. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 15, 2024 19:18:20 GMT
Perhaps MT spotted/decided that 4 at the back might give us better opportunities going forward, given that we created so little in the last 30 mins of the first half.
Once he decided that then Sousa of the back 5 was the obvious choice and then it was between Hutch and LT for midfield, not sure anybody can complain that he took off the less experienced player.
The fact it didn't work because we didn't improve is immaterial, unless you think MT should just stand at the side lines for 90 mins with his arms crossed and just hope the starting 11 get a result.
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Post by igotgas on Sept 15, 2024 20:05:18 GMT
Perhaps MT spotted/decided that 4 at the back might give us better opportunities going forward, given that we created so little in the last 30 mins of the first half. Once he decided that then Sousa of the back 5 was the obvious choice and then it was between Hutch and LT for midfield, not sure anybody can complain that he took off the less experienced player. The fact it didn't work because we didn't improve is immaterial, unless you think MT should just stand at the side lines for 90 mins with his arms crossed and just hope the starting 11 get a result. No of course not. No one was suggesting that he sat on the lot and did nothing. But what he did do didnt work do its fair for us to sit here and discuss whether it was the right thing to do. IMO making the two young players both of whom are desperately trying to make an impression and get their season up and running, scapegoats, was shocking man management unless they were genuinely so far off the rest of the pack it had to be done. They weren’t. It would be a hard push to single out anyone as being better brighter or alternatively, worse than anyone else during that first half. Again IMO Sousa has done ok and Hutchinson had had brighter moments than Garrett and Thomas and so had Thomas stayed as a WB it would’ve made sense but to move him into the middle and persevere with him didn’t. All I’m doing is looking at using some common sense. We were getting overrun in midfield I can see that. He’d already identified Conteh as being tired and having taken a knock and he was all over the place. He needed help alongside him and neither Garrett or Hutchinson were able to offer enough to hold it together in there. The sensible thing would’ve been to bring on Lindsay to help Conteh stem the tide defensively. With LT he then moved to a system that had wingers yet with Forde and LT as natural wingers he moved LT into the middle took off Hutchinson and left us even more exposed defensively and played SS and Ruel as wingers…Ruel had been close to being our worst player first half. It was an absolute car crash and it was compounded 10-15 mins later by trying to correct what he’d already got wrong by bringing on Lindsay and Forde. As I said if the subs were a toss of a coin of many players underperforming, and a shot across the bows as a warning to all, then have some balls and make a statement by hooking a big player not the easy targets. That’s just how I see things like that though. And before anyone says it of course we have the benefit of hindsight but we also have the benefit of common sense. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 15, 2024 21:27:39 GMT
Perhaps MT spotted/decided that 4 at the back might give us better opportunities going forward, given that we created so little in the last 30 mins of the first half. Once he decided that then Sousa of the back 5 was the obvious choice and then it was between Hutch and LT for midfield, not sure anybody can complain that he took off the less experienced player. The fact it didn't work because we didn't improve is immaterial, unless you think MT should just stand at the side lines for 90 mins with his arms crossed and just hope the starting 11 get a result. No of course not. No one was suggesting that he sat on the lot and did nothing. But what he did do didnt work do its fair for us to sit here and discuss whether it was the right thing to do. IMO making the two young players both of whom are desperately trying to make an impression and get their season up and running, scapegoats, was shocking man management unless they were genuinely so far off the rest of the pack it had to be done. They weren’t. It would be a hard push to single out anyone as being better brighter or alternatively, worse than anyone else during that first half. Again IMO Sousa has done ok and Hutchinson had had brighter moments than Garrett and Thomas and so had Thomas stayed as a WB it would’ve made sense but to move him into the middle and persevere with him didn’t. All I’m doing is looking at using some common sense. We were getting overrun in midfield I can see that. He’d already identified Conteh as being tired and having taken a knock and he was all over the place. He needed help alongside him and neither Garrett or Hutchinson were able to offer enough to hold it together in there. The sensible thing would’ve been to bring on Lindsay to help Conteh stem the tide defensively. With LT he then moved to a system that had wingers yet with Forde and LT as natural wingers he moved LT into the middle took off Hutchinson and left us even more exposed defensively and played SS and Ruel as wingers…Ruel had been close to being our worst player first half. It was an absolute car crash and it was compounded 10-15 mins later by trying to correct what he’d already got wrong by bringing on Lindsay and Forde. As I said if the subs were a toss of a coin of many players underperforming, and a shot across the bows as a warning to all, then have some balls and make a statement by hooking a big player not the easy targets. That’s just how I see things like that though. And before anyone says it of course we have the benefit of hindsight but we also have the benefit of common sense. The only bright spell Hutchinson had after the first 15 mins or so was one free kick, Thomas is capable of doing more than Hutch. You have to sense it was agreed before the match that Lindsay would only play the last 30 mins that's why we had the bizarre situation of Conteh thinking he'd been subbed for Lindsay but then being told he hadn't and so had to return to the field of play. |
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Post by igotgas on Sept 15, 2024 21:52:38 GMT
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that, for a spell I thought Hutchinson was quite bright and moved the ball well particularly out to Thomas and into Promise. Defensively yes they all looked all over the place but that was largely in transition because no one managed to get hold of the ball long enough.
It is what it is and I respect we’ll all have an opinion but ultimately LT did nothing to justify that faith and imo he hasn’t done so yet apart from Cambridge which we all now know, appears to be a outlier in terms of performances.
It’s possible re Lindsay but MT did say post match he was close to starting so to revert to only 30 mins doesn’t make sense.
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Post by William Wilson on Sept 16, 2024 6:26:08 GMT
Noticed Mr Hargraves in his Bristol Live post having a go at some fans for booing the players at halftime I didn't hear any booing at half time. I stayed to the end and in line with the thread about atmosphere in the ground, the boos at the end were half hearted. I stand on the east terrace, near the Thatcher`s end, and there definitely were a few half hearted boos at half time. Same at the end. I think those that stayed, were too stunned by what they`d just witnessed, to express much in the way of a vocal protest. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 16, 2024 6:43:51 GMT
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that, for a spell I thought Hutchinson was quite bright and moved the ball well particularly out to Thomas and into Promise. Defensively yes they all looked all over the place but that was largely in transition because no one managed to get hold of the ball long enough. It is what it is and I respect we’ll all have an opinion but ultimately LT did nothing to justify that faith and imo he hasn’t done so yet apart from Cambridge which we all now know, appears to be a outlier in terms of performances. It’s possible re Lindsay but MT did say post match he was close to starting so to revert to only 30 mins doesn’t make sense. We know from last season LT is capable of playing well, even at RWB, just why he's so poor lately is baffling, as he's clearly not a newcomer to the club nor struggling with how MT wants him to play. Sinclair is similarly as bad on the other wing. |
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Post by mariobalotelli on Sept 16, 2024 6:47:48 GMT
One injury. Two because they were losing. But you stated good managers don't do this. You’d really help yourself if you could read. What I said was “I will never understand a manager who makes subs at half time. He’s basically saying I can’t help you with any information or expectation and so I’ll just swap players and see if one’s better. You rarely if ever see the best managers do it. It screams “I dont know how to improve this”. The essence of managing / coaching would be to identify how that player can improve and how the team can improve by doing certain things better and then to give them the opportunity to carry that out” Pep is arguably the greatest manger of all time and he made 2 subs at half time on the weekend? |
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Post by William Wilson on Sept 16, 2024 6:56:28 GMT
If we had your way we'll be heading for L2 playing in front of 6,000 home fans, we're already back down to 7,000 home fans on a decent September Saturday afternoon for football with no competition from the game being live on Sky. We must already be losing £20K a match, how long can the owners take that kind of hit? Fwiw, I don't think that MT is here to get us promoted to the Championship, that's a bonus should he do so. I think he is here to steady the ship and help lay the foundations while things are simultaneously sorted out off the pitch. I expect, the owners of the White Star Line thought the same, when they appointed Captain Smith. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 16, 2024 7:44:42 GMT
I doubt the owners having spent £1m+ on transfer fees this summer are happy with MT to just steady the ship, if that's all they wanted they could have probably spent half that amount.
Forde in particular looks an extravagant purchase for a team just aiming for mid table.
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Post by Fetch on Sept 16, 2024 8:04:39 GMT
I doubt the owners having spent £1m+ on transfer fees this summer are happy with MT to just steady the ship, if that's all they wanted they could have probably spent half that amount. Forde in particular looks an extravagant purchase for a team just aiming for mid table. Nearly all the signings are 3 year deals plus an optional 4th. Says to me that whilst they've spent a large amount, this isn't a one year plan. |
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