HM The Queen

[stuart1974]

Sept 13, 2022 20:31:09 GMT fintanstack said:

Sept 13, 2022 20:23:00 GMT stuart1974 said:

Everyone has the right to dignity in death, as do the family members who have a right to grieve.

If we are not to be more sombre then surely we shouldn't be less either.

I do not believe everyone has the right to dignity in death.

The Queen probably does, but I am not totally certain of that.

I can think of a number of people both alive and passed where I could happily do a jig at their funeral and not have any remorse.

Maybe, but while you may not like a particular person in what way would that give anyone the right?

[Deleted]

I see a section of the Liverpool ‘fans’ booed the minutes silence , always hated that vile club.

[eric]

There are some vile people in this country. What sort of person sets out to disrupt a fellow human beings funeral (procession etc) and upset the family and other mourners? It’s nothing to do with right to protest or freedom of speech - there is plenty of time for debate and protest at a more suitable time. Those supporting these attention seeking ‘protestors’ actions are equally as despicable.

[yattongas]

Sept 13, 2022 21:16:33 GMT eric said:

There are some vile people in this country. What sort of person sets out to disrupt a fellow human beings funeral (procession etc) and upset the family and other mourners? It’s nothing to do with right to protest or freedom of speech - there is plenty of time for debate and protest at a more suitable time. Those supporting these attention seeking ‘protestors’ actions are equally as despicable.

Yeah agreed lots of vile people . You get folks who would rather see genuine refugees drown rather than reach these shores. You’d  get people who’d quite happily let the poor go hungry , the sick not get treatment , all to save themselves a few extra pounds in taxes .
But god forbid anyone holding up a bit of paper saying ‘ not my king’ 🙄
ps I’m ambivalent as far as the Royals go but people should be able to protest if that’s how feel . 

[eric]

Sept 13, 2022 21:33:54 GMT yattongas said:

Sept 13, 2022 21:16:33 GMT eric said:

There are some vile people in this country. What sort of person sets out to disrupt a fellow human beings funeral (procession etc) and upset the family and other mourners? It’s nothing to do with right to protest or freedom of speech - there is plenty of time for debate and protest at a more suitable time. Those supporting these attention seeking ‘protestors’ actions are equally as despicable.

Yeah agreed lots of vile people . You get folks who would rather see genuine refugees drown rather than reach these shores. You’d  get people who’d quite happily let the poor go hungry , the sick not get treatment , all to save themselves a few extra pounds in taxes .
But god forbid anyone holding up a bit of paper saying ‘ not my king’ 🙄
ps I’m ambivalent as far as the Royals go but people should be able to protest if that’s how feel . 

I’m not against people who wish protest against the royal family. If there was a choice I’d probably still keep them but wouldn’t turn up if one of them was opening my local corner shop. I just don’t get how somehow can feel good about themselves deliberately interrupting a grieving family and causing further upset. If you think that’s how human beings should behave towards each other that’s your choice.

[yattongas]

Sept 13, 2022 21:43:07 GMT eric said:

Sept 13, 2022 21:33:54 GMT yattongas said:

Yeah agreed lots of vile people . You get folks who would rather see genuine refugees drown rather than reach these shores. You’d  get people who’d quite happily let the poor go hungry , the sick not get treatment , all to save themselves a few extra pounds in taxes .
But god forbid anyone holding up a bit of paper saying ‘ not my king’ 🙄
ps I’m ambivalent as far as the Royals go but people should be able to protest if that’s how feel . 

I’m not against people who wish protest against the royal family. If there was a choice I’d probably still keep them but wouldn’t turn up if one of them was opening my local corner shop. I just don’t get how somehow can feel good about themselves deliberately interrupting a grieving family and causing further upset. If you think that’s how human beings should behave towards each other that’s your choice.

I agree , I wouldn’t personally protest and think it’s Ill judged timing wise . But…. On my other points ? You often ‘like’ a lot of what I deem abhorrent stuff. Each to their own I guess . ( although I often agree with your football take on a lot of things ! 😀) . 

[Deleted]

Anyone protesting at any funeral needs their teeth smashed in , there’s a time and a place no matter who they are. Just think if it was a member of your family ( god forbid )

[yattongas]

Sept 13, 2022 22:10:59 GMT okebournegas83 said:

Anyone protesting at any funeral needs their teeth smashed in , there’s a time and a place no matter who they are. Just think if it was a member of your family ( god forbid )

So when exactly do you as a republican protest against the ascension to the throne  .

you’ve got a window of about 0.5 seconds I reckon ….. or keep Sthcum for evermore ? 

[aghast]

There seems to be a surfeit of respect to the point where it's getting ridiculous.

Center Parcs telling their guests to leave because they are closing on Monday. Supermarkets closing during the day. Football cancelled at the weekend. Millions of people affected because someone is having a funeral. An important someone perhaps, but an important person related to no-one directly and not known personally by any of the millions.

I think there was a phase maybe in the 70s and 80s when respect for tradition and the Royals was wanting and it scared them. That has changed since then, for reasons I'm not sure about, but it definitely is connected to the sea change in British grieving following Diana's death, in my opinion. That was odd in itself, but it has set the tone for subsequent events.

Now we seem to be in a race to show respect to the max, and I think a factor in that is the wish to avoid any hint of criticism about not being respectful enough.

Maybe I'm missing something, judging by the masses in Edinburgh and those heading to London, but I do feel it's all over the top. That's up to them, I suppose. But I would be worried if I were to hold up a blank piece of paper as an statement of my indifference and then be threatened with incarceration.

[stuart1974]

Sept 13, 2022 22:51:16 GMT aghast said:

There seems to be a surfeit of respect to the point where it's getting ridiculous.

Center Parcs telling their guests to leave because they are closing on Monday. Supermarkets closing during the day. Football cancelled at the weekend. Millions of people affected because someone is having a funeral. An important someone perhaps, but an important person related to no-one directly and not known personally by any of the millions.

I think there was a phase maybe in the 70s and 80s when respect for tradition and the Royals was wanting and it scared them. That has changed since then, for reasons I'm not sure about, but it definitely is connected to the sea change in British grieving following Diana's death, in my opinion. That was odd in itself, but it has set the tone for subsequent events.

Now we seem to be in a race to show respect to the max, and I think a factor in that is the wish to avoid any hint of criticism about not being respectful enough.

Maybe I'm missing something, judging by the masses in Edinburgh and those heading to London, but I do feel it's all over the top. That's up to them, I suppose. But I would be worried if I were to hold up a blank piece of paper as an statement of my indifference and then be threatened with incarceration.

Plenty of disrespect out there, I agree that the Diana aftermath was a sea change in the traditional stiff upper lip attitude. I remember the 90s being predicted to be 'the caring 90s' after the individualism of the Thatcherite 80s culminating in the outpouring of public grief.

I would say that it eventually led to the more open attitude we have today especially mental health which can't be a bad thing.

The policing is heavy handed, I agree with that.

Edited to add that Center Parcs have gone back a little on the decision to close and I thought this piece interesting:

"Simon Morgan, a former Royal Protection Officer who now runs his own private security firm Trojan Consultancy, told PA: “If somebody is standing there with a placard and is just standing there then you police that accordingly.

“If somebody is clearly trying to stir up the crowd and is rattling the barriers trying to get over the barriers that is a different scenario again.

“Certainly in the current climate where everybody is there to pay their respects and somebody comes along and is different to that, you have to also consider the safety of that individual.

“You as a police officer have to spin it completely around and have a duty of care towards them.

“Policing is never clear cut, there’s lots of things to consider.”

What do authorities say?

People “absolutely have a right to protest” against the monarchy following the death of the Queen, police have said."

[Gassy]

Sept 13, 2022 19:56:03 GMT oldie said:

Sept 13, 2022 19:46:11 GMT Gassy said:

Ok so put it another way - if at a friends funeral called John, there’s someone’s holding a sign saying “I never liked John” do you think he should be removed from the funeral or just let them cause trouble?

What do you think about my Bristol city example above?

If "John" had been in a position of authority, one which that had been enabled by an historical feudal system and was still supported by tax payer money, I could understand someone making a point.

You could understand them making a point in the scenario of a position of authority, bud you’ve ignored my actual 2 questions:

1. Should they be removed from the funeral, despite the intent to offend, upset and cause trouble?

2. The Bristol City example. Both you and Yatton answered my post but specifically ignored that question on more than one occasion.

We both know why, because free speech is a lie. We choose when we do and don’t accept it and the Bristol City example proves it.

[yattongas]

[yattongas]

How can I stand outside an abortion clinic and hold up a sign saying it’s murder but I can’t stand at a funeral procession and say ‘not my king’ ? Gassy

[peterparker]

Of all the things that could have waited out of respect, I would say Clarence House staff getting redundancy notices is one of them

Stay Classy

[trevorgas]

Sept 13, 2022 23:07:28 GMT stuart1974 said:

Sept 13, 2022 22:51:16 GMT aghast said:

There seems to be a surfeit of respect to the point where it's getting ridiculous.

Center Parcs telling their guests to leave because they are closing on Monday. Supermarkets closing during the day. Football cancelled at the weekend. Millions of people affected because someone is having a funeral. An important someone perhaps, but an important person related to no-one directly and not known personally by any of the millions.

I think there was a phase maybe in the 70s and 80s when respect for tradition and the Royals was wanting and it scared them. That has changed since then, for reasons I'm not sure about, but it definitely is connected to the sea change in British grieving following Diana's death, in my opinion. That was odd in itself, but it has set the tone for subsequent events.

Now we seem to be in a race to show respect to the max, and I think a factor in that is the wish to avoid any hint of criticism about not being respectful enough.

Maybe I'm missing something, judging by the masses in Edinburgh and those heading to London, but I do feel it's all over the top. That's up to them, I suppose. But I would be worried if I were to hold up a blank piece of paper as an statement of my indifference and then be threatened with incarceration.

Plenty of disrespect out there, I agree that the Diana aftermath was a sea change in the traditional stiff upper lip attitude. I remember the 90s being predicted to be 'the caring 90s' after the individualism of the Thatcherite 80s culminating in the outpouring of public grief.

I would say that it eventually led to the more open attitude we have today especially mental health which can't be a bad thing.

The policing is heavy handed, I agree with that.

Edited to add that Center Parcs have gone back a little on the decision to close and I thought this piece interesting:

"Simon Morgan, a former Royal Protection Officer who now runs his own private security firm Trojan Consultancy, told PA: “If somebody is standing there with a placard and is just standing there then you police that accordingly.

“If somebody is clearly trying to stir up the crowd and is rattling the barriers trying to get over the barriers that is a different scenario again.

“Certainly in the current climate where everybody is there to pay their respects and somebody comes along and is different to that, you have to also consider the safety of that individual.

“You as a police officer have to spin it completely around and have a duty of care towards them.

“Policing is never clear cut, there’s lots of things to consider.”

What do authorities say?

People “absolutely have a right to protest” against the monarchy following the death of the Queen, police have said."

I don't think crowds coming out at this level are a particularly new thing if you look at the crowds for Queen Victoria's and Nelson's funeral and that was at a time when transport was very difficult.,what's new is the advent of media and the willingness of people to express their feelings which is no bad thing .
Re closures of shops etc everything was closed in 1901.

[fintanstack]

Sept 14, 2022 5:54:05 GMT yattongas said:

How can I stand outside an abortion clinic and hold up a sign saying it’s murder but I can’t stand at a funeral procession and say ‘not my king’ ? Gassy

You should be allowed to do both.

Doing either would make you a dick.

[Gassy]

Sept 14, 2022 8:03:59 GMT fintanstack said:

Sept 14, 2022 5:54:05 GMT yattongas said:

How can I stand outside an abortion clinic and hold up a sign saying it’s murder but I can’t stand at a funeral procession and say ‘not my king’ ? Gassy

You should be allowed to do both.

Doing either would make you a dick.

Agreed, you should be allowed to. But you should also move on when the police tell you to.

No answer to my city fan question 😉

[Gassy]

On a side note, is anyone planning to pay their respects/travel to London?

[wrongsideoftheriver]

Sept 14, 2022 9:08:28 GMT Gassy said:

On a side note, is anyone planning to pay their respects/travel to London?

Had no intentions to make the trip but my dear old mother wanted to go so I agreed to take her up. As mentioned i'm no royalist but it is a once in a life time event that would be a shame to miss out on.

Saying that though she's not in the best of health lately and the crowds may change her mind.

[popuppirate]