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Post by toggsy2 on Aug 14, 2022 20:27:07 GMT
Not sure you can say he’s achieved bugger all to be fair. We got relegated, then promoted. Same div just 18 months wasted. You can't really blame JB for the relegation as he came in after the transfer window, and to be fair the damage was already done by Garner and Tisdale. Joey could only work with the players he had at the time not his signings. Lets not forget some of the unprofessional actions by certain players, the chewing tobacco issue at the club and the whole Starnes and Widdrington fiasco
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 14, 2022 20:31:43 GMT
A Tory no doubt 🙄 Got any more pearls of wisdom you wanna share ? Nope. A limp dumb. You’re forgiven for assuming so given it’s been so long they’ve been in office most opposition former ministers are dead or in a care home. House of Lords? 😃
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Post by Gastafari on Aug 14, 2022 20:39:22 GMT
I don't think the era's are comparable tbf.
Back when Gerry Francis was manager and we were at Twerton, Oxford were getting to the top flight and winning a League Cup, Wimbledon were finishing in the top 6 of the top flight and winning an FA Cup, around that time Cambridge also got to the old Division 2 Play Offs the season before the Premier League was formed.
They were all former non league clubs in grounds not to dissimilar to Twerton.
Stuff like that doesn't happen anymore.
We've had the likes of Wigan, Reading, Swansea, Bournemouth, Brighton and Brentford etc have success recently bu they've all had major investment or new stadiums.
If Joey Barton gets us promoted again he has to be right up there in achievements.
The advent of the Premier league and the aftermath of the Bosman ruling means that, IMO, the 'glass ceiling' has come down 6-10 places. For me, promotion to the Championship with maybe at least one season staying up would be comparable to Gerry's achievements. Also the fact that we haven't even been at 2nd tier level for 30 years. If he does get us promoted while in our current ground, he has to be right up there.
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Post by aghast on Aug 14, 2022 20:40:26 GMT
For me very difficult to compare football through the years. The game has changed so much in so many different ways. I like watching Boxing, and for me it’s the same thing, can you compare Ali, to Tyson, to our Frank and Fury. It’s different gravy imo, technically science and everything is different. Just natural evolution, and I would put my tenner on Joe Barton at this moment in time being the best manager we have had, he also seems to love us to bits. No disrespect to any former managers of course, doesn’t matter what you have won. There is only 3 cups to win each season at our level. But you can compare achievements. As you say, the game, the players, and the science behind it all have evolved and changed things massively. But Don Megson's sides are not playing Gerry's, and Gerry's sides are not playing Joey's. They were playing their contemporaries who had similar training, diet, facilities and knowledge. And against those sides they did well and got us into the Championship or Division 2 as was. I think any manager who gets us a promotion has to be judged as a success, for a spell a least, and in that way Joey is a success, and well done him. But he does not have back to back promotions or a spell in the Championship on his CV. He cannot possibly, in my opinion, be classed as one of the best managers we have had, at least not yet, because what he has achieved is significantly less than several others achieved given the tools they had available to them. It's like saying Roger Bannister's 4 minute mile is not as worthy an achievement as the current 1500 metre record, which is great, and would beat all previous middle distance heroes, but in its context is not as memorable as the mile record. Some football fans have very short memories, it seems to me, and live for the moment. Some pretty football, one promotion, and suddenly Joey is the best thing to ever happen to the club. He's not. He just isn't. He might be one day, of course.
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Post by toggsy2 on Aug 14, 2022 20:49:26 GMT
To call him a legend at this stage is a bit of a statement,but compared with some of the managers he's up there with the best. DC also has a relegation on his CV a lot of people were calling for his head after a poor start in the National League but look what happened the rest is history. Let's just enjoy the ride what will be will be
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Post by gulfofaden on Aug 14, 2022 20:51:32 GMT
For me very difficult to compare football through the years. The game has changed so much in so many different ways. I like watching Boxing, and for me it’s the same thing, can you compare Ali, to Tyson, to our Frank and Fury. It’s different gravy imo, technically science and everything is different. Just natural evolution, and I would put my tenner on Joe Barton at this moment in time being the best manager we have had, he also seems to love us to bits. No disrespect to any former managers of course, doesn’t matter what you have won. There is only 3 cups to win each season at our level. But you can compare achievements. As you say, the game, the players, and the science behind it all have evolved and changed things massively. But Don Megson's sides are not playing Gerry's, and Gerry's sides are not playing Joey's. They were playing their contemporaries who had similar training, diet, facilities and knowledge. And against those sides they did well and got us into the Championship or Division 2 as was. I think any manager who gets us a promotion has to be judged as a success, for a spell a least, and in that way Joey is a success, and well done him. But he does not have back to back promotions or a spell in the Championship on his CV. He cannot possibly, in my opinion, be classed as one of the best managers we have had, at least not yet, because what he has achieved is significantly less than several others achieved given the tools they had available to them. It's like saying Roger Bannister's 4 minute mile is not as worthy an achievement as the current 1500 metre record, which is great, and would beat all previous middle distance heroes, but in its context is not as memorable as the mile record. Some football fans have very short memories, it seems to me, and live for the moment. Some pretty football, one promotion, and suddenly Joey is the best thing to ever happen to the club. He's not. He just isn't. He might be one day, of course. It was BRUCE Bannister, not Roger, get your facts right.
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Post by yattongas on Aug 14, 2022 20:56:29 GMT
For me very difficult to compare football through the years. The game has changed so much in so many different ways. I like watching Boxing, and for me it’s the same thing, can you compare Ali, to Tyson, to our Frank and Fury. It’s different gravy imo, technically science and everything is different. Just natural evolution, and I would put my tenner on Joe Barton at this moment in time being the best manager we have had, he also seems to love us to bits. No disrespect to any former managers of course, doesn’t matter what you have won. There is only 3 cups to win each season at our level. But you can compare achievements. As you say, the game, the players, and the science behind it all have evolved and changed things massively. But Don Megson's sides are not playing Gerry's, and Gerry's sides are not playing Joey's. They were playing their contemporaries who had similar training, diet, facilities and knowledge. And against those sides they did well and got us into the Championship or Division 2 as was. I think any manager who gets us a promotion has to be judged as a success, for a spell a least, and in that way Joey is a success, and well done him. But he does not have back to back promotions or a spell in the Championship on his CV. He cannot possibly, in my opinion, be classed as one of the best managers we have had, at least not yet, because what he has achieved is significantly less than several others achieved given the tools they had available to them. It's like saying Roger Bannister's 4 minute mile is not as worthy an achievement as the current 1500 metre record, which is great, and would beat all previous middle distance heroes, but in its context is not as memorable as the mile record. Some football fans have very short memories, it seems to me, and live for the moment. Some pretty football, one promotion, and suddenly Joey is the best thing to ever happen to the club. He's not. He just isn't. He might be one day, of course. Said it much better than I could 👏
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 14, 2022 21:00:26 GMT
But you can compare achievements. As you say, the game, the players, and the science behind it all have evolved and changed things massively. But Don Megson's sides are not playing Gerry's, and Gerry's sides are not playing Joey's. They were playing their contemporaries who had similar training, diet, facilities and knowledge. And against those sides they did well and got us into the Championship or Division 2 as was. I think any manager who gets us a promotion has to be judged as a success, for a spell a least, and in that way Joey is a success, and well done him. But he does not have back to back promotions or a spell in the Championship on his CV. He cannot possibly, in my opinion, be classed as one of the best managers we have had, at least not yet, because what he has achieved is significantly less than several others achieved given the tools they had available to them. It's like saying Roger Bannister's 4 minute mile is not as worthy an achievement as the current 1500 metre record, which is great, and would beat all previous middle distance heroes, but in its context is not as memorable as the mile record. Some football fans have very short memories, it seems to me, and live for the moment. Some pretty football, one promotion, and suddenly Joey is the best thing to ever happen to the club. He's not. He just isn't. He might be one day, of course. It was BRUCE Bannister, not Roger, get your facts right. You might want to double check that.
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Post by yattongas on Aug 14, 2022 21:12:39 GMT
It was BRUCE Bannister, not Roger, get your facts right. You might want to double check that. Ha ha he got you ! He’s hilarious isn’t he? 🙄
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Post by dudelebowski on Aug 14, 2022 21:16:47 GMT
Onto Barnsley anyway, matchday 4 😂😂
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 21:38:36 GMT
For me very difficult to compare football through the years. The game has changed so much in so many different ways. I like watching Boxing, and for me it’s the same thing, can you compare Ali, to Tyson, to our Frank and Fury. It’s different gravy imo, technically science and everything is different. Just natural evolution, and I would put my tenner on Joe Barton at this moment in time being the best manager we have had, he also seems to love us to bits. No disrespect to any former managers of course, doesn’t matter what you have won. There is only 3 cups to win each season at our level. But you can compare achievements. As you say, the game, the players, and the science behind it all have evolved and changed things massively. But Don Megson's sides are not playing Gerry's, and Gerry's sides are not playing Joey's. They were playing their contemporaries who had similar training, diet, facilities and knowledge. And against those sides they did well and got us into the Championship or Division 2 as was. I think any manager who gets us a promotion has to be judged as a success, for a spell a least, and in that way Joey is a success, and well done him. But he does not have back to back promotions or a spell in the Championship on his CV. He cannot possibly, in my opinion, be classed as one of the best managers we have had, at least not yet, because what he has achieved is significantly less than several others achieved given the tools they had available to them. It's like saying Roger Bannister's 4 minute mile is not as worthy an achievement as the current 1500 metre record, which is great, and would beat all previous middle distance heroes, but in its context is not as memorable as the mile record. Some football fans have very short memories, it seems to me, and live for the moment. Some pretty football, one promotion, and suddenly Joey is the best thing to ever happen to the club. He's not. He just isn't. He might be one day, of course. Can’t argue with you if I’m honest. I only was making the point that in the days of social media, constant interviews, transfer talk, player power, off field politics and most importantly the finances involved in the game today is incomparable to the 80s 90s early 00s. I know it’s the same for every club. But still think that as a modern day manager its a lot of off field stuff you have to deal with, that 20 plus years ago you wouldn’t have got to get involved with. It’s the multi tasking at all levels that’s impressive with JB and culture change handling of the board experience at the highest level for me is the difference. Football has moved on, like other industry. Not for one moment wanting to put down anyones achievements in the past. But I think there is a massive gap and what you have to do to achieve in L2, L1, Champ in the last 5 to 10 years. That is why my initial comment was it’s extremely difficult to compare football between the decades, almost impossible.
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 14, 2022 21:55:46 GMT
You might want to double check that. Ha ha he got you ! He’s hilarious isn’t he? 🙄 Come on, we all know it was Dr David Banner.
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 14, 2022 22:05:57 GMT
It was BRUCE Bannister, not Roger, get your facts right. You might want to double check that. It’s gulfofaden, I don’t think he thinks anything happened before 1990! 😉 UTG!
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 14, 2022 22:19:52 GMT
You might want to double check that. It’s gulfofaden, I don’t think he thinks anything happened before 1990! 😉 UTG! Oh I know. Wasn't there a sketch in Fantasy Football about 'old football was rubbish'? Mind you, I'm showing my age in that I've quoted the Incredible Hulk's alter ego from the 1978 TV show. He's also known as Bruce Banner, would have been a little more amusing.
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Post by gulfofaden on Aug 15, 2022 5:07:00 GMT
You might want to double check that. Ha ha he got you ! He’s hilarious isn’t he? 🙄 Feel a bit safer with company Yatton? Weak.
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Post by yattongas on Aug 15, 2022 6:55:48 GMT
Ha ha he got you ! He’s hilarious isn’t he? 🙄 Feel a bit safer with company Yatton? Weak. Morning 😀
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 15, 2022 9:25:25 GMT
Can’t argue with that . Good early signs but ultimately he’s achieved bugger all so far. But I stress …. Good early signs . I guess it depends if you're just judging on results, or looking at the bigger picture. Our set-up behind the scenes has improved immensley since JB came, and that is feeding through to what happens on the pitch now. DC will always be a Rovers legend in my eyes. I hope you’re right Tilly. FWIW, it looks like our set-up behind the scenes has improved but it all seems bound up with JB. His friends, his ideas, in all areas of the club. Poor DC in ‘14 when he took over didn’t have much, had to do his own scouting, recruitment, training, prep etc with a few trusted staff. The medical side, the recruitment (with TW!) all got better before DC left. But iirc DC would say promises weren’t kept. I love what JB is doing now but he does have a much better infrastructure to work within. As you say the ‘set-up’ appears better but that’s down to Wael as well, providing the funds. I’d worry that it could all go wrong without JB seeing as he’s so central to what is happening. And in the end we are a lower league club who experiences peaks and troughs and at the moment we are enjoying a bit of a peak. Without the issue of the ground being resolves I fear we will continue in that cycle. Long may it continue on the current peak. 👍 UTG!
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Post by Gaswood on Aug 15, 2022 9:34:57 GMT
I guess it depends if you're just judging on results, or looking at the bigger picture. Our set-up behind the scenes has improved immensley since JB came, and that is feeding through to what happens on the pitch now. DC will always be a Rovers legend in my eyes. I hope you’re right Tilly. FWIW, it looks like our set-up behind the scenes has improved but it all seems bound up with JB. His friends, his ideas, in all areas of the club. Poor DC in ‘14 when he took over didn’t have much, had to do his own scouting, recruitment, training, prep etc with a few trusted staff. The medical side, the recruitment (with TW!) all got better before DC left. But iirc DC would say promises weren’t kept. I love what JB is doing now but he does have a much better infrastructure to work within. As you say the ‘set-up’ appears better but that’s down to Wael as well, providing the funds. I’d worry that it could all go wrong without JB seeing as he’s so central to what is happening. And in the end we are a lower league club who experiences peaks and troughs and at the moment we are enjoying a bit of a peak. Without the issue of the ground being resolves I fear we will continue in that cycle. Long may it continue on the current peak. 👍 UTG! Totally agree with all of this, but would hope we learn from the changes and roles that have been introduced, and use that for when we have to deal with life after JB for whatever reason. A few have said there’s potential for Whelan to learn that side now and be able to ease in longer term. Fingers crossed it’s a long long time away if things continue as they have been, and we can enjoy the ride a bit longer! 🤞
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Post by mariobalotelli on Aug 15, 2022 11:43:11 GMT
Can’t believe I’m reading people say JB is a better manager for us than DC. Won about 4 games at League 1 level whilst managing us. Why not it's someone's opinion and have made a fair case to why. We look more professional on and off the pitch than we have in years recruitment seems to be better than what is use to be and as JB has said we aren't being ripped off by clubs/players anymore who want extortionate money for average players. Your hatred off the man is more embarrassing and you can't bring yourself to see what many others can. Starts to argue the case “why not it’s someone’s opinion” then proceeds to call mine embarrassing. Statistically mine is correct as opposed to those with their crystal balls but you do you 👍 For Rovers JB has 1.39 PPG, DC 1.51.
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Post by rusho'gas on Aug 15, 2022 12:11:34 GMT
As a stated JB hater I begrudgingly accept what he is doing.
How do you rally the troops? Simple philosophy in action, defined by the lowest common denominator (hate of the sh** )
For what it's worth he has taken us back to where we were, nothing more, nothing less, albeit with a more resilient and improved playing staff.
Long way to go yet, those that do, enjoy the ride.
Target one has to be to get above the filth one day, would be great to see it and I applaud Barton for aiming that way. If we get above them he will overtake DC on statistics alone.
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