yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Aug 14, 2022 16:31:43 GMT
Can’t argue with that . Good early signs but ultimately he’s achieved bugger all so far. But I stress …. Good early signs . Depends on the benchmark being set. DC and GF both had us a division higher than when they took over. JB has done a great job this calendar year and possibly has the better quality, possibly with the Ollie reign being the best I've seen, closely followed by David Williams' tenure (Malcolm Allison's period was too short to really be comparable but was great for the few games he was here). With team spirit increasing towards the level of the GF and DC eras and quality matching Ollie's squad, he's in with a shout but needs to deliver this over a longer period. Well said 👍
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Post by The Equaliser on Aug 14, 2022 16:43:59 GMT
Not sure you can say he’s achieved bugger all to be fair. We got relegated, then promoted. Same div just 18 months wasted. We all see things differently 👍🏾
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Post by gasandelectricity on Aug 14, 2022 16:44:16 GMT
Not sure you can say he’s achieved bugger all to be fair. We got relegated, then promoted. Same div just 18 months wasted. At the risk of opening up an argument that’s been done to death, we were as good as done at the point of Tisdale getting fired.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Aug 14, 2022 16:49:18 GMT
I’m just saying at this point nothing has been achieved and I’m not sure how anyone can argue with that . Things are looking so much better at the moment but unless we get promoted in his next few yrs with us it’s not ‘success’ .
I’m def in the camp that thinks he might get us promoted. I count my chickens when they’re hatched. 🐣
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Post by neilv93 on Aug 14, 2022 17:17:26 GMT
Can’t argue with that . Good early signs but ultimately he’s achieved bugger all so far. But I stress …. Good early signs . I guess it depends if you're just judging on results, or looking at the bigger picture. Our set-up behind the scenes has improved immensley since JB came, and that is feeding through to what happens on the pitch now. DC will always be a Rovers legend in my eyes. Agreed, although I'd argue a lot of that wasn't through the fault of trying on DCs part - he wanted the training ground etc. but we have undeniably improved in EVERY single off-field department under JBs tenure. I think, for me, the key thing about JB and what he's done is improving our reputation within the rest of the football pyramid. PL/CH clubs will look at us as potential loanee spots now, which further improves our talent acquiring, but also he's making the club more desirable for if and when he does leave. I remember us all lusting after Nathan Jones when Coughlan left and it was remarkably unrealistic at the time, whereas if JB left for bigger things this season, I think the queue of potential hires to replace him would be a lot longer and more promising this time around... although let's hope he stays until we're in the CH as he says!
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Post by singupgas on Aug 14, 2022 17:26:22 GMT
I’m just saying at this point nothing has been achieved and I’m not sure how anyone can argue with that . Things are looking so much better at the moment but unless we get promoted in his next few yrs with us it’s not ‘success’ . I’m def in the camp that thinks he might get us promoted. I count my chickens when they’re hatched. 🐣 When you look at the team we had was is it any surprise. Wasn't Westbrooke supposed to be our star player. The team really was a shambles, the quality of the team was low assembled by Ben Garner. People keep saying we were not in the relegation zone when Joey arrived...its not an argument..if you are a bad side that continues to lose you continue to fall down the table. 2 years later we now have a side that would wipe the floor with what we saw assembled by Ben Garner.
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Post by holmesgas1 on Aug 14, 2022 17:28:10 GMT
I’m just saying at this point nothing has been achieved and I’m not sure how anyone can argue with that . Things are looking so much better at the moment but unless we get promoted in his next few yrs with us it’s not ‘success’ . I’m def in the camp that thinks he might get us promoted. I count my chickens when they’re hatched. 🐣 I agree it’s a matter of opinions, but to say nothing has been achieved is harsh. He took a side in free fall and transformed it, and gave us all a season that will live long, and definitely worth the ride. Also from the outside the club looks a lot more professional, both on and off the field. Not all down to Barton; TG and Weal have a lot to be thanked for too. To say only championship is a bit hard I think, because that means only Gerry Francis and Megson have succeeded in recent times.
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Post by fintanstack on Aug 14, 2022 17:55:07 GMT
I’m just saying at this point nothing has been achieved and I’m not sure how anyone can argue with that . Things are looking so much better at the moment but unless we get promoted in his next few yrs with us it’s not ‘success’ . I’m def in the camp that thinks he might get us promoted. I count my chickens when they’re hatched. 🐣 When you look at the team we had was is it any surprise. Wasn't Westbrooke supposed to be our star player. The team really was a shambles, the quality of the team was low assembled by Ben Garner. People keep saying we were not in the relegation zone when Joey arrived...its not an argument..if you are a bad side that continues to lose you continue to fall down the table. 2 years later we now have a side that would wipe the floor with what we saw assembled by Ben Garner. In the lower leagues success is a pointless indicator of performance. It is better to look at other things. I agree that if our current side played Garners team it would be embarrassing. Ironically, they would pass them off the park too so by that measure Barton has been good for us because he has improved every area of the side.
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Post by playtowin on Aug 14, 2022 18:21:26 GMT
Every managers success or failure is always relative to the situation the club was in at the time. Fans might always have unrealistic measures of what should be achieved.
There have been many great things done over the years at Rovers . I still think the greatest all time achievement was Gerry Francis winning league one and then achieving midtable championship finishes for a couple of seasons. When you consider the situation the club was in it shouldnt of happened. We should have been relegated and gone bust by all sensible reasoning.
For JB to become our greatest manager he needs to reach the championship playoffs....either several times...or to win promotion.
He is currently sat amongst the good company of managers who have done well at Rovers.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Aug 14, 2022 18:21:46 GMT
I’m just saying at this point nothing has been achieved and I’m not sure how anyone can argue with that . Things are looking so much better at the moment but unless we get promoted in his next few yrs with us it’s not ‘success’ . I’m def in the camp that thinks he might get us promoted. I count my chickens when they’re hatched. 🐣 I agree it’s a matter of opinions, but to say nothing has been achieved is harsh. He took a side in free fall and transformed it, and gave us all a season that will live long, and definitely worth the ride. Also from the outside the club looks a lot more professional, both on and off the field. Not all down to Barton; TG and Weal have a lot to be thanked for too. To say only championship is a bit hard I think, because that means only Gerry Francis and Megson have succeeded in recent times. Harsh but fair my friend . Promotions are what managers are judged on …. And relegations.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Aug 14, 2022 18:22:43 GMT
Every managers success or failure is always relative to the situation the club was in at the time. Fans might always have unrealistic measures of what should be achieved. There have been many great things done over the years at Rovers . I still think the greatest all time achievement was Gerry Francis winning league one and then achieving midtable championship finishes for a couple of seasons. When you consider the situation the club was in it shouldnt of happened. We should have been relegated and gone bust by all sensible reasoning. For JB to become our greatest manager he needs to reach the championship playoffs....either several times...or to win promotion. He is currently sat amongst the good company of managers who have done well at Rovers. King Gerry 👑
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Post by Gastafari on Aug 14, 2022 19:07:37 GMT
Every managers success or failure is always relative to the situation the club was in at the time. Fans might always have unrealistic measures of what should be achieved. There have been many great things done over the years at Rovers . I still think the greatest all time achievement was Gerry Francis winning league one and then achieving midtable championship finishes for a couple of seasons. When you consider the situation the club was in it shouldnt of happened. We should have been relegated and gone bust by all sensible reasoning. For JB to become our greatest manager he needs to reach the championship playoffs....either several times...or to win promotion. He is currently sat amongst the good company of managers who have done well at Rovers. I don't think the era's are comparable tbf.
Back when Gerry Francis was manager and we were at Twerton, Oxford were getting to the top flight and winning a League Cup, Wimbledon were finishing in the top 6 of the top flight and winning an FA Cup, around that time Cambridge also got to the old Division 2 Play Offs the season before the Premier League was formed.
They were all former non league clubs in grounds not to dissimilar to Twerton.
Stuff like that doesn't happen anymore.
We've had the likes of Wigan, Reading, Swansea, Bournemouth, Brighton and Brentford etc have success recently but they've all had major investment or new stadiums.
If Joey Barton gets us promoted again he has to be right up there in achievements.
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Post by holmesgas1 on Aug 14, 2022 19:12:26 GMT
I agree it’s a matter of opinions, but to say nothing has been achieved is harsh. He took a side in free fall and transformed it, and gave us all a season that will live long, and definitely worth the ride. Also from the outside the club looks a lot more professional, both on and off the field. Not all down to Barton; TG and Weal have a lot to be thanked for too. To say only championship is a bit hard I think, because that means only Gerry Francis and Megson have succeeded in recent times. Harsh but fair my friend . Promotions are what managers are judged on …. And relegations. We shall agree to disagree, not fair at all :-)
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 14, 2022 19:15:27 GMT
Every managers success or failure is always relative to the situation the club was in at the time. Fans might always have unrealistic measures of what should be achieved. There have been many great things done over the years at Rovers . I still think the greatest all time achievement was Gerry Francis winning league one and then achieving midtable championship finishes for a couple of seasons. When you consider the situation the club was in it shouldnt of happened. We should have been relegated and gone bust by all sensible reasoning. For JB to become our greatest manager he needs to reach the championship playoffs....either several times...or to win promotion. He is currently sat amongst the good company of managers who have done well at Rovers. I don't think the era's are comparable tbf.
Back when Gerry Francis was manager and we were at Twerton, Oxford were getting to the top flight and winning a League Cup, Wimbledon were finishing in the top 6 of the top flight and winning an FA Cup, around that time Cambridge also got to the old Division 2 Play Offs the season before the Premier League was formed.
They were all former non league clubs in grounds not to dissimilar to Twerton.
Stuff like that doesn't happen anymore.
We've had the likes of Wigan, Reading, Swansea, Bournemouth, Brighton and Brentford etc have success recently bu they've all had major investment or new stadiums.
If Joey Barton gets us promoted again he has to be right up there in achievements.
The advent of the Premier league and the aftermath of the Bosman ruling means that, IMO, the 'glass ceiling' has come down 6-10 places. For me, promotion to the Championship with maybe at least one season staying up would be comparable to Gerry's achievements.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 19:39:06 GMT
For me very difficult to compare football through the years. The game has changed so much in so many different ways.
I like watching Boxing, and for me it’s the same thing, can you compare Ali, to Tyson, to our Frank and Fury. It’s different gravy imo, technically science and everything is different.
Just natural evolution, and I would put my tenner on Joe Barton at this moment in time being the best manager we have had, he also seems to love us to bits.
No disrespect to any former managers of course, doesn’t matter what you have won. There is only 3 cups to win each season at our level.
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Post by gulfofaden on Aug 14, 2022 19:50:09 GMT
Politicians have a lot less to do with actually running the country than you think. They essentially get given a list of options by civil servants and they pick the one which is most politically expedient. The rest of the time they are managing the media. 90% of what happens, good or bad, has nothing to do with politicians. This is another thread in itself just has to be said! It has to be said, politicians do decide the general thrust of policy. It’s about choices. They make the choices that affect many. The levels of investment in the health service, social care, education and our economy has been so obviously very poor over the last 12 years. Tories have made very bad decisions growing the economy in last 12 years. Politicians also decide if excess profits of energy giants should be used to help to reduce energy bills for the many who are struggling, for example. We have had 12 years of the Tories making very bad apparently politically expedient choices. They have been useless for so many people who deserve better. All politicians are not the same but as you say this should be on another thread. This just had to be said. I was more talking about politicians in general (I’ve had this first hand from a former cabinet member) rather than “my guys are better than these guys”
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Aug 14, 2022 19:52:30 GMT
It has to be said, politicians do decide the general thrust of policy. It’s about choices. They make the choices that affect many. The levels of investment in the health service, social care, education and our economy has been so obviously very poor over the last 12 years. Tories have made very bad decisions growing the economy in last 12 years. Politicians also decide if excess profits of energy giants should be used to help to reduce energy bills for the many who are struggling, for example. We have had 12 years of the Tories making very bad apparently politically expedient choices. They have been useless for so many people who deserve better. All politicians are not the same but as you say this should be on another thread. This just had to be said. I was more talking about politicians in general (I’ve had this first hand from a former cabinet member) rather than “my guys are better than these guys” A Tory no doubt 🙄 Got any more pearls of wisdom you wanna share ?
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Post by gulfofaden on Aug 14, 2022 19:56:26 GMT
For me very difficult to compare football through the years. The game has changed so much in so many different ways. I like watching Boxing, and for me it’s the same thing, can you compare Ali, to Tyson, to our Frank and Fury. It’s different gravy imo, technically science and everything is different. Just natural evolution, and I would put my tenner on Joe Barton at this moment in time being the best manager we have had, he also seems to love us to bits. No disrespect to any former managers of course, doesn’t matter what you have won. There is only 3 cups to win each season at our level. I’m very glad I started getting interested in football in the early 90s. Of course, everyone’s memories are just as valid but 70s and 80s football is less than watchable. I’ve had this discussion before and before the tirade of comments telling me David Williams was the son of the almighty and better than ronaldo, I just wanted to say up front that I don’t care ;-)
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Post by gulfofaden on Aug 14, 2022 19:58:53 GMT
I was more talking about politicians in general (I’ve had this first hand from a former cabinet member) rather than “my guys are better than these guys” A Tory no doubt 🙄 Got any more pearls of wisdom you wanna share ? Nope. A limp dumb. You’re forgiven for assuming so given it’s been so long they’ve been in office most opposition former ministers are dead or in a care home.
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Post by dudelebowski on Aug 14, 2022 20:07:01 GMT
My first proper memories of football were 1993/94, in regard to comparisons of eras (not that I believe in it, but I’ll roll with it anyway) take the premier league from back then to now. Not even comparable in levels, quality, fitness, size of clubs etc…it’s a totally different game.
You can filter that right down the football league pyramid in kind, naturally. Take nothing away from GF and what he achieved but if Joey gets us to the championship the next few seasons whilst still at the Mem, then it’s certainly the biggest achievement for me. .
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