Scotland

[stuart1974]

May 9, 2021 19:47:02 GMT trevorgas said:

May 9, 2021 18:22:50 GMT Gassy said:

Tbf, it's completely his issue. 

Boris said he'd keep the UK together - the way it's going, I'm not sure he can achieve that. 

He was also the PM who negotiated the Brexit deal & influenced many to vote leave, so no matter what happens - it is very much a Boris issue. 

I'm all for Scotland having another referendum though, the landscape has changed so much since the last referendum - the people deserve another say. But let's say Scotland get that referendum and vote leave. If we thought it was tough to leave the EU, what would it be like to leave the UK? 

To add to that, they want to 'rejoin' the EU right? Would that even be possible? The border would be unmanageable, surely? In theory the UK could just block any membership by playing hardball with the border, meaning the EU wouldn't accept their application. The process from referendum to joining the EU could be 20+ years IMO

If asked he's bound to say he would keep the UK together no British PM has said anything different,the Brexit vote was 2 years away when the first referendum took place and 45% voted to leave so there was a considerable independence movement long before Boris became PM,whilst Brexit has undoubtedly driven more into the leave camp the number is relatively small around 5% and I would contend that we would be at this point sooner or later anyway as the margins are small.
As far as an independent Scotland rejoining the EU you are right about the border however,as I posted earlier Spain will veteo any attempt as it would create a dangerous precedent for Catalan which they are vehemently opposed to.

Leaving aside the political aspects, as I understand it an Independent Scotland would not qualify for accession on financial grounds anyway.

IndyRef2 was always going to happen, all Brexit did was add a few doubters, reinforce the committed and give the SNP the excuse to go again.

What they don't want is to have it yet, they will want polls to show 55-60% in favour on a consistent basis as if they fail this time, it will be the end of it like with Quebec.

[yattongas]

May 9, 2021 22:02:07 GMT Dirt Dogg said:

The union won’t last another 10 years, it’ll be England and Wales by 2030.

And they’ll still claim it had absolutely nothing to do with Brexit 🙄

[trevorgas]

May 9, 2021 21:09:31 GMT yattongas said:

May 9, 2021 21:01:09 GMT trevorgas said:

Fraid not😣😣

When they leave you won’t have to worry about her or Blackford again. 😉

Every cloud.......

[trevorgas]

May 9, 2021 22:22:33 GMT stuart1974 said:

May 9, 2021 19:47:02 GMT trevorgas said:

If asked he's bound to say he would keep the UK together no British PM has said anything different,the Brexit vote was 2 years away when the first referendum took place and 45% voted to leave so there was a considerable independence movement long before Boris became PM,whilst Brexit has undoubtedly driven more into the leave camp the number is relatively small around 5% and I would contend that we would be at this point sooner or later anyway as the margins are small.
As far as an independent Scotland rejoining the EU you are right about the border however,as I posted earlier Spain will veteo any attempt as it would create a dangerous precedent for Catalan which they are vehemently opposed to.

Leaving aside the political aspects, as I understand it an Independent Scotland would not qualify for accession on financial grounds anyway.

IndyRef2 was always going to happen, all Brexit did was add a few doubters, reinforce the committed and give the SNP the excuse to go again.

What they don't want is to have it yet, they will want polls to show 55-60% in favour on a consistent basis as if they fail this time, it will be the end of it like with Quebec.

Agree with that Stuart,the polls are 50-50 to close to call,personally I would like them to go and good luck to them,it will be tough economically for them particularly if they take their share of the pandemic debt.

[trevorgas]

May 9, 2021 22:22:54 GMT yattongas said:

May 9, 2021 22:02:07 GMT Dirt Dogg said:

The union won’t last another 10 years, it’ll be England and Wales by 2030.

And they’ll still claim it had absolutely nothing to do with Brexit 🙄

In the cold light of day does it really matter if they go or stay.

[yattongas]

May 10, 2021 6:44:32 GMT trevorgas said:

May 9, 2021 22:22:54 GMT yattongas said:

And they’ll still claim it had absolutely nothing to do with Brexit 🙄

In the cold light of day does it really matter if they go or stay.

I think it will make us weaker , more isolated and all those Conservative and union party MPs will have to find a new flag to stand beside . 

[trevorgas]

May 10, 2021 7:02:25 GMT yattongas said:

May 10, 2021 6:44:32 GMT trevorgas said:

In the cold light of day does it really matter if they go or stay.

I think it will make us weaker , more isolated and all those Conservative and union party MPs will have to find a new flag to stand beside . 

I don't see how it will make us more isolated,Scotland isn't the engine of International trade in the UK and from a population perspective it's relatively small.
If they leave politics in the rest of the UK will be little affected as the SNP are so dominant that Labour/Tory MPs are as rare as hens teeth.

[yattongas]

May 10, 2021 7:09:05 GMT trevorgas said:

May 10, 2021 7:02:25 GMT yattongas said:

I think it will make us weaker , more isolated and all those Conservative and union party MPs will have to find a new flag to stand beside . 

I don't see how it will make us more isolated,Scotland isn't the engine of International trade in the UK and from a population perspective it's relatively small.
If they leave politics in the rest of the UK will be little affected as the SNP are so dominant that Labour/Tory MPs are as rare as hens teeth.

We’ll have to agree to disagree.... unless you wanna argue ? 😀

[matealotblue]

May 10, 2021 7:02:25 GMT yattongas said:

May 10, 2021 6:44:32 GMT trevorgas said:

In the cold light of day does it really matter if they go or stay.

I think it will make us weaker , more isolated and all those Conservative and union party MPs will have to find a new flag to stand beside . 

We will all have to find a new flag to stand beside.

[stuart1974]

May 10, 2021 7:09:05 GMT trevorgas said:

May 10, 2021 7:02:25 GMT yattongas said:

I think it will make us weaker , more isolated and all those Conservative and union party MPs will have to find a new flag to stand beside . 

I don't see how it will make us more isolated,Scotland isn't the engine of International trade in the UK and from a population perspective it's relatively small.
If they leave politics in the rest of the UK will be little affected as the SNP are so dominant that Labour/Tory MPs are as rare as hens teeth.

As with these things, it depends on where you are in the circle. For us on here, probably very little. Diplomatically and in terms of international standing it will diminish us to some degree with the knock on effect in relations, soft power influences, trade. If will also bring added pressure to lose our UN seat.

[matealotblue]

May 10, 2021 8:41:43 GMT stuart1974 said:

May 10, 2021 7:09:05 GMT trevorgas said:

I don't see how it will make us more isolated,Scotland isn't the engine of International trade in the UK and from a population perspective it's relatively small.
If they leave politics in the rest of the UK will be little affected as the SNP are so dominant that Labour/Tory MPs are as rare as hens teeth.

As with these things, it depends on where you are in the circle. For us on here, probably very little. Diplomatically and in terms of international standing it will diminish us to some degree with the knock on effect in relations, soft power influences, trade. If will also bring added pressure to lose our UN seat.

And that takes us back to what I've said on here and for a long while. The nice lady north of the border is selling a dream (the easy bit) but is a little short on what the reality will be (difficult bit) on how this dream will be realised, what it will mean to the the person on the street and just how long it will take to get there. And for the rest of us outside Scotland we need to know what it also means for us. Just a few minor points to clear up and we are all set to go next week some time I reckon.... 🤔

[stuart1974]

May 10, 2021 8:54:26 GMT matealotblue said:

May 10, 2021 8:41:43 GMT stuart1974 said:

As with these things, it depends on where you are in the circle. For us on here, probably very little. Diplomatically and in terms of international standing it will diminish us to some degree with the knock on effect in relations, soft power influences, trade. If will also bring added pressure to lose our UN seat.

And that takes us back to what I've said on here and for a long while. The nice lady north of the border is selling a dream (the easy bit) but is a little short on what the reality will be (difficult bit) on how this dream will be realised, what it will mean to the the person on the street and just how long it will take to get there. And for the rest of us outside Scotland we need to know what it also means for us. Just a few minor points to clear up and we are all set to go next week some time I reckon.... 🤔

Absolutely it's a dream that can and will likely turn into a nightmare, Indyref2 followed by Darian scheme 2.

For a start, they will have a deficit of something like £1,000 per head, Clyde and Rosyth shipbuilders likely to close by 2030, 8% share of the national debt, civil service pensions liability.

No entry back to the EU as they will not have the economic necessities for joining, especially if they keep Sterling as it will be a third country currency, unless of course the SNP lady the other day was right when she said it was irrelevant being able to print your own currency as we buy with credit cards anyway. 🙄

[stuart1974]

Another consequence of Scotland leaving will be Westminster becoming a Conservative monopoly. We seem to have drifted into three one party states.

Not good for democracy.

[trevorgas]

May 10, 2021 7:13:17 GMT yattongas said:

May 10, 2021 7:09:05 GMT trevorgas said:

I don't see how it will make us more isolated,Scotland isn't the engine of International trade in the UK and from a population perspective it's relatively small.
If they leave politics in the rest of the UK will be little affected as the SNP are so dominant that Labour/Tory MPs are as rare as hens teeth.

We’ll have to agree to disagree.... unless you wanna argue ? 😀

Love debating (not arguing )with you my friend,it will be one of those only time will tell,if they vote go we should line up on the border and sing cheerio,cheerio......😀😀

[trevorgas]

May 10, 2021 8:41:43 GMT stuart1974 said:

May 10, 2021 7:09:05 GMT trevorgas said:

I don't see how it will make us more isolated,Scotland isn't the engine of International trade in the UK and from a population perspective it's relatively small.
If they leave politics in the rest of the UK will be little affected as the SNP are so dominant that Labour/Tory MPs are as rare as hens teeth.

As with these things, it depends on where you are in the circle. For us on here, probably very little. Diplomatically and in terms of international standing it will diminish us to some degree with the knock on effect in relations, soft power influences, trade. If will also bring added pressure to lose our UN seat.

Your right Stuart,interesting for me as I've got older I question the true value of "International Standing "what does that actually mean?
Same with the UN,in many a crisis during my lifetime they have been impotent,their criminal negligence in Bosnia when Muslims were being massacred made me physically sick,so the jury is out for me.

[stuart1974]

May 10, 2021 11:34:18 GMT trevorgas said:

May 10, 2021 8:41:43 GMT stuart1974 said:

As with these things, it depends on where you are in the circle. For us on here, probably very little. Diplomatically and in terms of international standing it will diminish us to some degree with the knock on effect in relations, soft power influences, trade. If will also bring added pressure to lose our UN seat.

Your right Stuart,interesting for me as I've got older I question the true value of "International Standing "what does that actually mean?
Same with the UN,in many a crisis during my lifetime they have been impotent,their criminal negligence in Bosnia when Muslims were being massacred made me physically sick,so the jury is out for me.

The UN isn't what it was briefly in the early 90s, some diplomatic levers and legitimacy on peacekeeping missions but seriously in need of reform.

Bosnia was horrendous, had a keen interest throughout the 90s. Srebrenica showed the limitations of UN influence, your boys from North Wales showed how it could be done, even with a rather liberal interpretation of the rules of engagement.

[yattongas]

May 10, 2021 11:23:42 GMT trevorgas said:

May 10, 2021 7:13:17 GMT yattongas said:

We’ll have to agree to disagree.... unless you wanna argue ? 😀

Love debating (not arguing )with you my friend,it will be one of those only time will tell,if they vote go we should line up on the border and sing cheerio,cheerio......😀😀

Yep it’s only a matter of time until you admit you were wrong and I was right. 🕰

[trevorgas]

May 10, 2021 12:12:45 GMT stuart1974 said:

May 10, 2021 11:34:18 GMT trevorgas said:

Your right Stuart,interesting for me as I've got older I question the true value of "International Standing "what does that actually mean?
Same with the UN,in many a crisis during my lifetime they have been impotent,their criminal negligence in Bosnia when Muslims were being massacred made me physically sick,so the jury is out for me.

The UN isn't what it was briefly in the early 90s, some diplomatic levers and legitimacy on peacekeeping missions but seriously in need of reform.

Bosnia was horrendous, had a keen interest throughout the 90s. Srebrenica showed the limitations of UN influence, your boys from North Wales showed how it could be done, even with a rather liberal interpretation of the rules of engagement.

Yep,what's happened increasingly is the major powers act out side the UN ,yep the North Wales troops were outstandingly brave and imagine the carnage if they hadn't stepped up and indeed Blair had not ordered air strikes,perhaps his finest hour.

[trevorgas]

May 10, 2021 12:15:05 GMT yattongas said:

May 10, 2021 11:23:42 GMT trevorgas said:

Love debating (not arguing )with you my friend,it will be one of those only time will tell,if they vote go we should line up on the border and sing cheerio,cheerio......😀😀

Yep it’s only a matter of time until you admit you were wrong and I was right. 🕰

Haha, shall I roll out my hell will freeze over quote😀😀

[trevorgas]

May 10, 2021 9:24:39 GMT stuart1974 said:

Another consequence of Scotland leaving will be Westminster becoming a Conservative monopoly. We seem to have drifted into three one party states.

Not good for democracy.

A sort of bigger version of Scotland.