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Post by trevorgas on May 6, 2021 6:58:10 GMT
I think Labour elected the wrong candidate to win in 2024, they are probably at the Neil Kinnock stage after Corbyn's Michael Foot. He is not who the Northern Labour voters are after, too London centric without the natural charm and charisma. It's sad to say but in today's personality politics Labour needs someone who is seen to be more 'in touch' if they want to win back the red wall seats. Still time for him to grow into the role, but I suspect the knives will be sharpening especially by those on the left of the party. Not sure who I'd see replace him, probably someone like Lisa Nandy although I can't see her as PM. Dan Jarvis would be good but I think he has other plans at the moment. If Labour don't get it right they will go the same way as the party in Scotland,too much inbuilt arrogance/complacency that the "working class"will always vote for them,like they do in Wales despite them delivering a poorer Wales after 22 years in power. |
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Post by peterparker on May 6, 2021 7:59:25 GMT
I think Labour elected the wrong candidate to win in 2024, they are probably at the Neil Kinnock stage after Corbyn's Michael Foot. He is not who the Northern Labour voters are after, too London centric without the natural charm and charisma. It's sad to say but in today's personality politics Labour needs someone who is seen to be more 'in touch' if they want to win back the red wall seats. Still time for him to grow into the role, but I suspect the knives will be sharpening especially by those on the left of the party. Not sure who I'd see replace him, probably someone like Lisa Nandy although I can't see her as PM. Dan Jarvis would be good but I think he has other plans at the moment. Andy Burnham? |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on May 6, 2021 8:24:28 GMT
I think Labour elected the wrong candidate to win in 2024, they are probably at the Neil Kinnock stage after Corbyn's Michael Foot. He is not who the Northern Labour voters are after, too London centric without the natural charm and charisma. It's sad to say but in today's personality politics Labour needs someone who is seen to be more 'in touch' if they want to win back the red wall seats. Still time for him to grow into the role, but I suspect the knives will be sharpening especially by those on the left of the party. Not sure who I'd see replace him, probably someone like Lisa Nandy although I can't see her as PM. Dan Jarvis would be good but I think he has other plans at the moment. Andy Burnham? Would be a good choice imo but he's no longer an MP. |
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Post by oldie on May 6, 2021 8:36:24 GMT
I think Labour elected the wrong candidate to win in 2024, they are probably at the Neil Kinnock stage after Corbyn's Michael Foot. He is not who the Northern Labour voters are after, too London centric without the natural charm and charisma. It's sad to say but in today's personality politics Labour needs someone who is seen to be more 'in touch' if they want to win back the red wall seats. Still time for him to grow into the role, but I suspect the knives will be sharpening especially by those on the left of the party. Not sure who I'd see replace him, probably someone like Lisa Nandy although I can't see her as PM. Dan Jarvis would be good but I think he has other plans at the moment. If Labour don't get it right they will go the same way as the party in Scotland,too much inbuilt arrogance/complacency that the "working class"will always vote for them,like they do in Wales despite them delivering a poorer Wales after 22 years in power. I am not convinced that the analysis is that straightforward. The concept that the basis of the Labour Party is a "Working Class" section of society is no longer true. Does the working class even exist anymore? Certainly not if one considers the original solutions to working class issues such as poverty, education, housing and health care provision. Those solutions were based upon the "collective", indeed altruism. Can we claim that today? My personal belief is that the 1980s under Thatcher was very successful in destroying those concepts. Blair / Brown adapted the Labour Party message to accept that reality but managed to embrace the individual sense of "right" and liberalism that is still there. To counter this successful mix, the children of Thatcher had to find something else to regain power. Enter nationalism. Invoking Patriotism. As Samuel Johnson said so famously, "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Now we have the entitled scoundrel in power, now we have the flags everywhere with language to suit. And where does this message hit home the most? Not in areas of the country that have done well out of the free market, (and Single Market), draw a line from north Essex down to Bristol as crude demarcation line. North of that line health outcomes are worse, housing standards are worse, unemployment is worse. Educational achievements are worse. The success and dominance of the South East led to a hopelessly distorted housing market made social mobility almost impossible. The has led to the stupidly named "Red Wall". Behind that wall lay a disgruntled population, often sneered at and told that their kids were massively under achieving in education, implying that it was their fault. Add austerity which damaged this segment of the population the most. The Tories cannot admit any of this without confronting their own history. So they turn to nationalism, Brexit being the point man in policy. So to Starmer. If Labour is to successfully challenge this lot, they are going to have to be far more aggressive in detailing what the Tories have done. in so doing they may well lose the left wing of the party supported by the Unions if they do not adopt a classic socialist solution. But so what. Because they will never win on that basis anyway. The leader is forensic and is more than capable of pulling the Tory legacy to pieces. In reality its quite easy. But he has to recognise the mistakes of the Labour Party in policy terms, face down internal dissent and present workable solutions that address the issues facing voters behind the red wall, convincing them that flag waving doesn't actually cut it. Another year of piddling about around the edges will lead to the eventual demise of the Labour Party as an effective force in our political system. So we will end up with a single party state, with an entitled establishment ruling under the cloak of democracy. Back to the future anyone? |
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Post by trevorgas on May 6, 2021 8:55:29 GMT
If Labour don't get it right they will go the same way as the party in Scotland,too much inbuilt arrogance/complacency that the "working class"will always vote for them,like they do in Wales despite them delivering a poorer Wales after 22 years in power. I am not convinced that the analysis is that straightforward. The concept that the basis of the Labour Party is a "Working Class" section of society is no longer true. Does the working class even exist anymore? Certainly not if one considers the original solutions to working class issues such as poverty, education, housing and health care provision. Those solutions were based upon the "collective", indeed altruism. Can we claim that today? My personal belief is that the 1980s under Thatcher was very successful in destroying those concepts. Blair / Brown adapted the Labour Party message to accept that reality but managed to embrace the individual sense of "right" and liberalism that is still there. To counter this successful mix, the children of Thatcher had to find something else to regain power. Enter nationalism. Invoking Patriotism. As Samuel Johnson said so famously, "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Now we have the entitled scoundrel in power, now we have the flags everywhere with language to suit. And where does this message hit home the most? Not in areas of the country that have done well out of the free market, (and Single Market), draw a line from north Essex down to Bristol as crude demarcation line. North of that line health outcomes are worse, housing standards are worse, unemployment is worse. Educational achievements are worse. The success and dominance of the South East led to a hopelessly distorted housing market made social mobility almost impossible. The has led to the stupidly named "Red Wall". Behind that wall lay a disgruntled population, often sneered at and told that their kids were massively under achieving in education, implying that it was their fault. Add austerity which damaged this segment of the population the most. The Tories cannot admit any of this without confronting their own history. So they turn to nationalism, Brexit being the point man in policy. So to Starmer. If Labour is to successfully challenge this lot, they are going to have to be far more aggressive in detailing what the Tories have done. in so doing they may well lose the left wing of the party supported by the Unions if they do not adopt a classic socialist solution. But so what. Because they will never win on that basis anyway. The leader is forensic and is more than capable of pulling the Tory legacy to pieces. In reality its quite easy. But he has to recognise the mistakes of the Labour Party in policy terms, face down internal dissent and present workable solutions that address the issues facing voters behind the red wall, convincing them that flag waving doesn't actually cut it. Another year of piddling about around the edges will lead to the eventual demise of the Labour Party as an effective force in our political system. So we will end up with a single party state, with an entitled establishment ruling under the cloak of democracy. Back to the future anyone? Agree with the majority of that Les,I may have over simplified my quote it was based on living in Scotland through Labour's demise where they had a sense of complacency and entitlement and the SNP capitilised massively. Labour have been electorally successful when presenting as a left of centre party and I can't see Starmer achieving that without fracturing the party and loosing Union backing. Like Scotland a dominant one party state is a dictatorship in all but name with a cult of personality and we should be very worried. |
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Post by oldie on May 6, 2021 9:34:17 GMT
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Post by Gassy on May 6, 2021 10:13:44 GMT
Oldie if you run for next Labour leader, I’ll register as a member and you’ll get my vote 😉
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Post by trevorgas on May 6, 2021 11:34:47 GMT
Tow the line that's what benign dictators want. |
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Post by oldie on May 6, 2021 12:35:27 GMT
Tow the line that's what benign dictators want. Even a malignant dictatorship who put a fool to front them.🤔 |
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Post by Dirt Dogg on May 6, 2021 19:45:37 GMT
I think Labour elected the wrong candidate to win in 2024, they are probably at the Neil Kinnock stage after Corbyn's Michael Foot. He is not who the Northern Labour voters are after, too London centric without the natural charm and charisma. It's sad to say but in today's personality politics Labour needs someone who is seen to be more 'in touch' if they want to win back the red wall seats. Still time for him to grow into the role, but I suspect the knives will be sharpening especially by those on the left of the party. Not sure who I'd see replace him, probably someone like Lisa Nandy although I can't see her as PM. Dan Jarvis would be good but I think he has other plans at the moment. I get that but then I give you Alexander pfeffel Johnson , Eton educated, London centric posh boy. Riddle me that ? Because he drinks pints and there’s that video of him rugby tackling someone in a charity football match 15 years ago. |
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Post by peterparker on May 7, 2021 14:02:17 GMT
Would be a good choice imo but he's no longer an MP. Lord Adonis, reported as saying the next leader shouldn't be confined to the the House of Commons. Andy Burnham starts trending on twitter The knives are well and truly sharpened for Starmer already |
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Post by oldie on May 8, 2021 20:51:06 GMT
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Post by yattongas on May 8, 2021 21:20:15 GMT
Didn’t Gove call teachers “the blob” ? |
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on May 8, 2021 23:49:07 GMT
That w**ker Marvin Rees in again.
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Post by peterparker on May 9, 2021 6:52:57 GMT
Starmer has sacked Angela Rayner as Party Chair. Re-shuffle expected
From the way the Rayner news has come out, it seems either very knee-jerk or very deliberate.
The PR doesnt look good and I dont see this helping Starmer at all
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Post by trevorgas on May 9, 2021 8:46:57 GMT
Starmer has sacked Angela Rayner as Party Chair. Re-shuffle expected From the way the Rayner news has come out, it seems either very knee-jerk or very deliberate. The PR doesnt look good and I dont see this helping Starmer at all So his " I take full responsibility for the results" really meant "I don't and it's all your fault Angela" |
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Post by oldie on May 9, 2021 8:57:26 GMT
Beyond the media feeding frenzy over the result in Hartlepool, the results across the whole UK are interesting.
The Tories well beaten in Scotland and Wales, major metropolitan areas voting in Labour Mayors, (Tories actually came third in our city, behind the Greens)
I cannot help but think that Covid has provided a cloak of protection around the Tories and their actual record.
Any competent opposing party will, should, eat them alive.
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Post by oldie on May 9, 2021 10:28:15 GMT
Ffs Starmer
Since Tories came to power:
> 200,000 nurses quit the NHS
> Justice spending down 25%
> Police numbers down 21,732
> Highest taxes since 1950s
> Homelessness up 250%
And, me old mucker, what exactly are you intending to "learn"
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on May 9, 2021 22:45:46 GMT
A few interesting observations, Labour clearly have been badly mauled in the local elections, even Bristol has fallen to a Green vote. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-57048306However Wales is still Labour in the urban areas and most of the Mayoralties went red, 9 out of 11 or so. Sky did a GE weighting and predicted a Conservative majority of 48, which is better than the current 80. Starmer has conducted a reshuffle, not as great as I thought it would be. Time to learn the lessons and fast, in a nod to PP's post the other day, get on the phone to Andy Burnham. |
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Post by peterparker on May 10, 2021 5:55:33 GMT
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