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Post by oldie on Mar 24, 2021 15:36:28 GMT
I see that today the police are rolling back on the claims of serious injury to their officers from the weekend demo. Not helpful when they exaggerate thus feeding the frenzy. There should’ve been no frenzy in the first place it was all self inflected. Full stop. What is puzzling is Why is there all this jumping on the bandwagon in England nowadays and following like lost pathetic sheep the protests in America? This country is ticking over and trying to get over the worst obstacle we have faced since WW2 and all we have is left wing copy cat protests like the Americans, it really is odd to want to disrupt your own country in the name of whatever and be proud to do it. Not in the name of "whatever" But for the hard one freedoms won and defended by my forefathers |
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Post by Gassy on Mar 24, 2021 15:39:03 GMT
Exactly and you reap what you sow along the way and as for sleepwalking into tyranny is that a left wing reason for promoting anarchy? It’s not a new law being arrested for being a nuisance either that one has been doing the rounds for years especially at football matches but maybe in a different wording. Just a question as I genuinely don’t know the answer but how many protests over the years have resulted in an overturn in result for what said protest is about? I know it’s a left wing thing but why can’t you lot Just live and let live and behave? if you don’t and break the law you can have no complaints if punished whatever the bill is. Is it a left/right problem though? Not really looked at the footage for this event but the idea of peaceful protest is one synonymous with this country, something to be proud of. If people didn't protest then nothing would have changed. As for the recent events, we don't yet know who was involved, it could be left wing protesters, could be right wing protesters, could be just people with pent up frustration after a year of lockdown or even just those looking for a fight with the police. It’s not, but certain people want someone to blame |
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Post by oldie on Mar 24, 2021 15:42:40 GMT
On timing Because WE, those of us who believe in the freedom of association and assembly, as enshrined in law by an act of Parliament in 1998, must make our voices heard when a government is attempting to put pressure on those rights by wishing to pass onto the statute book a law which gives the police the power to arrest us for being a "nuisance". Sleep walk into tyranny if you wish, some of us refuse to. Exactly and you reap what you sow along the way and as for sleepwalking into tyranny is that a left wing reason for promoting anarchy? It’s not a new law being arrested for being a nuisance either that one has been doing the rounds for years especially at football matches but maybe in a different wording. Just a question as I genuinely don’t know the answer but how many protests over the years have resulted in an overturn in result for what said protest is about? I know it’s a left wing thing but why can’t you lot Just live and let live and behave? if you don’t and break the law you can have no complaints if punished whatever the bill is. "Just a question as I genuinely don’t know the answer but how many protests over the years have resulted in an overturn in result for what said protest is about?" I give you sir Peterloo, The Suffragettes, Ireland, Vietnam The Poll Tax. To name but 5 |
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henry
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Post by henry on Mar 24, 2021 15:44:25 GMT
Exactly and you reap what you sow along the way and as for sleepwalking into tyranny is that a left wing reason for promoting anarchy? It’s not a new law being arrested for being a nuisance either that one has been doing the rounds for years especially at football matches but maybe in a different wording. Just a question as I genuinely don’t know the answer but how many protests over the years have resulted in an overturn in result for what said protest is about? I know it’s a left wing thing but why can’t you lot Just live and let live and behave? if you don’t and break the law you can have no complaints if punished whatever the bill is. Is it a left/right problem though? Not really looked at the footage for this event but the idea of peaceful protest is one synonymous with this country, something to be proud of. If people didn't protest then nothing would have changed. As for the recent events, we don't yet know who was involved, it could be left wing protesters, could be right wing protesters, could be just people with pent up frustration after a year of lockdown or even just those looking for a fight with the police. Protests and their values have been watered down over the years and achieved nothing but bragging rights and ‘I was there’. Of course it’s a shame that people cannot protest peacefully lawfully but this is modern day and times have changed and the opportunity for Antifa and other paid activist to promote a form of anarchy and turn peaceful protests into battle grounds. For what it achieves what IS the point of a protest in modern times because the cause is lost in the bad press. |
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Post by Gassy on Mar 24, 2021 15:48:05 GMT
Frankly, if we didn’t have such an under funded police force then this would be much less of an issue. To make up for not being able to control crowds due the the underfunding of the police, they’re forcing restrictions on people to limit the protests. But guess what that does...
The whole situation is upside down
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henry
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Post by henry on Mar 24, 2021 15:48:21 GMT
Exactly and you reap what you sow along the way and as for sleepwalking into tyranny is that a left wing reason for promoting anarchy? It’s not a new law being arrested for being a nuisance either that one has been doing the rounds for years especially at football matches but maybe in a different wording. Just a question as I genuinely don’t know the answer but how many protests over the years have resulted in an overturn in result for what said protest is about? I know it’s a left wing thing but why can’t you lot Just live and let live and behave? if you don’t and break the law you can have no complaints if punished whatever the bill is. "Just a question as I genuinely don’t know the answer but how many protests over the years have resulted in an overturn in result for what said protest is about?" I give you sir Peterloo, The Suffragettes, Ireland, Vietnam The Poll Tax. To name but 5 I should’ve been more specific as I meant in this modern day. Seriously tho, Ireland!! The poll tax!! Vietnam!! I don’t think so. |
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henry
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Post by henry on Mar 24, 2021 15:53:18 GMT
There should’ve been no frenzy in the first place it was all self inflected. Full stop. What is puzzling is Why is there all this jumping on the bandwagon in England nowadays and following like lost pathetic sheep the protests in America? This country is ticking over and trying to get over the worst obstacle we have faced since WW2 and all we have is left wing copy cat protests like the Americans, it really is odd to want to disrupt your own country in the name of whatever and be proud to do it. Not in the name of "whatever" But for the hard one freedoms won and defended by my forefathers Our forefathers would be disgusted and turn over in their graves to find what this country has become. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 24, 2021 16:12:13 GMT
Is it a left/right problem though? Not really looked at the footage for this event but the idea of peaceful protest is one synonymous with this country, something to be proud of. If people didn't protest then nothing would have changed. As for the recent events, we don't yet know who was involved, it could be left wing protesters, could be right wing protesters, could be just people with pent up frustration after a year of lockdown or even just those looking for a fight with the police. Protests and their values have been watered down over the years and achieved nothing but bragging rights and ‘I was there’. Of course it’s a shame that people cannot protest peacefully lawfully but this is modern day and times have changed and the opportunity for Antifa and other paid activist to promote a form of anarchy and turn peaceful protests into battle grounds. For what it achieves what IS the point of a protest in modern times because the cause is lost in the bad press. To some degree, but not protesting means the 'big boys' just carry on. There are other ways to do it, but sometimes it needs mass movement. We seem to conflate a few issues, firstly protesting. Yes, it still has a place. Boycotting is another but I'm not totally convinced it works. Sometimes it does. Secondly those involved, it's not a right or left thing. I'm sure the 'right' would protest too if the issue was heartfelt and to be honest, using descriptions like that tends to box in and polarise debate. Someone will want an outcome just because they think they disagree with the person rather than realise it affects them too. Thirdly, what happens and why things turn ugly. We don't know, it's probably a mixture of the things I mentioned earlier. I don't condone the march but I do understand why they felt that way. Ask yourself, if you wanted to change something which you felt deeply about, how would you do it? |
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Post by oldie on Mar 24, 2021 16:26:18 GMT
Not in the name of "whatever" But for the hard one freedoms won and defended by my forefathers Our forefathers would be disgusted and turn over in their graves to find what this country has become. Not mine |
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Post by oldie on Mar 24, 2021 16:32:17 GMT
"Just a question as I genuinely don’t know the answer but how many protests over the years have resulted in an overturn in result for what said protest is about?" I give you sir Peterloo, The Suffragettes, Ireland, Vietnam The Poll Tax. To name but 5 I should’ve been more specific as I meant in this modern day. Seriously tho, Ireland!! The poll tax!! Vietnam!! I don’t think so. Really? In Ireland 1916 led very directly to total Independence. The poll tax riots led directly to a repeal of that legislation. Vietnam...Nixon killing kids in Ohio directly to the evaporation of support for that conflict, domestically. This constrained the use of the military and led to the fall of the then regime in Saigon Plus you cannot dismiss history so lightly and then claim our forefathers, who took part, would be against what we are today. History tells us differently. The shame is betraying them. |
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Post by baggins on Mar 24, 2021 17:35:16 GMT
Our forefathers would be disgusted and turn over in their graves to find what this country has become. Not mine Not dead? Cremated? Foreign? |
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Post by oldie on Mar 24, 2021 18:15:46 GMT
Not dead? Cremated? Foreign? Two cremated, two buried. All British. |
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henry
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Post by henry on Mar 24, 2021 18:22:23 GMT
Protests and their values have been watered down over the years and achieved nothing but bragging rights and ‘I was there’. Of course it’s a shame that people cannot protest peacefully lawfully but this is modern day and times have changed and the opportunity for Antifa and other paid activist to promote a form of anarchy and turn peaceful protests into battle grounds. For what it achieves what IS the point of a protest in modern times because the cause is lost in the bad press. To some degree, but not protesting means the 'big boys' just carry on. There are other ways to do it, but sometimes it needs mass movement. We seem to conflate a few issues, firstly protesting. Yes, it still has a place. Boycotting is another but I'm not totally convinced it works. Sometimes it does. Secondly those involved, it's not a right or left thing. I'm sure the 'right' would protest too if the issue was heartfelt and to be honest, using descriptions like that tends to box in and polarise debate. Someone will want an outcome just because they think they disagree with the person rather than realise it affects them too. Thirdly, what happens and why things turn ugly. We don't know, it's probably a mixture of the things I mentioned earlier. I don't condone the march but I do understand why they felt that way. Ask yourself, if you wanted to change something which you felt deeply about, how would you do it? Who are the ‘big boys’ you refer to Stuart? Apple, Samsung,Starbucks, costa, Amazon, BP, shell, TUI, etc.? What I can’t get my head around is the exact same people, not all obviously, who protest against these big organisations have a mobile phone, drink in Costa and buy from Amazon, drive cars/vans and fly to foreign destinations! It makes their political protest pointless and hypocritical. As for Government decisions and laws so be it, we elect which Party is in power through ‘democracy’ and we should be law abiding and accept. As i pointed out in another post, these protest are a magnet for extreme groups to infiltrate and go against the establishment something which, I expect, people who should know better are quietly pleased with. If I wanted to change something I personally felt deeply about i would go through the proper channels but I would not chase a lost cause through a protest as i have better things to do with my time and I especially wouldn’t want to be near some of the people shown at that protest with the deadly Covid virus raising its ugly head. |
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Post by oldie on Mar 24, 2021 18:35:20 GMT
Henry
"As for Government decisions and laws so be it, we elect which Party is in power through ‘democracy’ and we should be law abiding and accept."
Just wow.
By default then you would accept a duly elected fascist party? (Of the left or right)
Hitler was elected
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Post by blueridge on Mar 24, 2021 19:28:54 GMT
To some degree, but not protesting means the 'big boys' just carry on. There are other ways to do it, but sometimes it needs mass movement. We seem to conflate a few issues, firstly protesting. Yes, it still has a place. Boycotting is another but I'm not totally convinced it works. Sometimes it does. Secondly those involved, it's not a right or left thing. I'm sure the 'right' would protest too if the issue was heartfelt and to be honest, using descriptions like that tends to box in and polarise debate. Someone will want an outcome just because they think they disagree with the person rather than realise it affects them too. Thirdly, what happens and why things turn ugly. We don't know, it's probably a mixture of the things I mentioned earlier. I don't condone the march but I do understand why they felt that way. Ask yourself, if you wanted to change something which you felt deeply about, how would you do it? Who are the ‘big boys’ you refer to Stuart? Apple, Samsung,Starbucks, costa, Amazon, BP, shell, TUI, etc.? What I can’t get my head around is the exact same people, not all obviously, who protest against these big organisations have a mobile phone, drink in Costa and buy from Amazon, drive cars/vans and fly to foreign destinations! It makes their political protest pointless and hypocritical. As for Government decisions and laws so be it, we elect which Party is in power through ‘democracy’ and we should be law abiding and accept. As i pointed out in another post, these protest are a magnet for extreme groups to infiltrate and go against the establishment something which, I expect, people who should know better are quietly pleased with. If I wanted to change something I personally felt deeply about i would go through the proper channels but I would not chase a lost cause through a protest as i have better things to do with my time and I especially wouldn’t want to be near some of the people shown at that protest with the deadly Covid virus raising its ugly head. And to a lesser extent the hypocrites on here who shout the loudest about recorded deaths in UK through COVID are the same people condoning and shouting the loudest about the right to hold protests during a pandemic. |
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Post by oldie on Mar 24, 2021 20:19:31 GMT
Who are the ‘big boys’ you refer to Stuart? Apple, Samsung,Starbucks, costa, Amazon, BP, shell, TUI, etc.? What I can’t get my head around is the exact same people, not all obviously, who protest against these big organisations have a mobile phone, drink in Costa and buy from Amazon, drive cars/vans and fly to foreign destinations! It makes their political protest pointless and hypocritical. As for Government decisions and laws so be it, we elect which Party is in power through ‘democracy’ and we should be law abiding and accept. As i pointed out in another post, these protest are a magnet for extreme groups to infiltrate and go against the establishment something which, I expect, people who should know better are quietly pleased with. If I wanted to change something I personally felt deeply about i would go through the proper channels but I would not chase a lost cause through a protest as i have better things to do with my time and I especially wouldn’t want to be near some of the people shown at that protest with the deadly Covid virus raising its ugly head. And to a lesser extent the hypocrites on here who shout the loudest about recorded deaths in UK through COVID are the same people condoning and shouting the loudest about the right to hold protests during a pandemic. For example There is no evidence that BLM supported demonstrations last summer dramatically increased covid infection rates and therefore deaths, but there is clear evidence that the shambolic policies and announcements from November through to the week before Christmas did. That's why |
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Post by blueridge on Mar 24, 2021 20:34:33 GMT
And to a lesser extent the hypocrites on here who shout the loudest about recorded deaths in UK through COVID are the same people condoning and shouting the loudest about the right to hold protests during a pandemic. For example There is no evidence that BLM supported demonstrations last summer dramatically increased covid infection rates and therefore deaths, but there is clear evidence that the shambolic policies and announcements from November through to the week before Christmas did. That's why OK - so even one extra death either directly or indirectly as a result of protests doesn’t matter - unless it doesn’t impact on you of course. |
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Post by Gassy on Mar 24, 2021 20:38:00 GMT
Who are the ‘big boys’ you refer to Stuart? Apple, Samsung,Starbucks, costa, Amazon, BP, shell, TUI, etc.? What I can’t get my head around is the exact same people, not all obviously, who protest against these big organisations have a mobile phone, drink in Costa and buy from Amazon, drive cars/vans and fly to foreign destinations! It makes their political protest pointless and hypocritical. As for Government decisions and laws so be it, we elect which Party is in power through ‘democracy’ and we should be law abiding and accept. As i pointed out in another post, these protest are a magnet for extreme groups to infiltrate and go against the establishment something which, I expect, people who should know better are quietly pleased with. If I wanted to change something I personally felt deeply about i would go through the proper channels but I would not chase a lost cause through a protest as i have better things to do with my time and I especially wouldn’t want to be near some of the people shown at that protest with the deadly Covid virus raising its ugly head. And to a lesser extent the hypocrites on here who shout the loudest about recorded deaths in UK through COVID are the same people condoning and shouting the loudest about the right to hold protests during a pandemic. And on the flip side the others on here who told us it isn't that bad, there are countries worse off than us and we're doing a stellar job - then they really shouldn't be bothered about a protest. |
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Post by oldie on Mar 24, 2021 21:06:02 GMT
For example There is no evidence that BLM supported demonstrations last summer dramatically increased covid infection rates and therefore deaths, but there is clear evidence that the shambolic policies and announcements from November through to the week before Christmas did. That's why OK - so even one extra death either directly or indirectly as a result of protests doesn’t matter - unless it doesn’t impact on you of course. I never made that contention. I was responding to your point on hypocrisy. To use your numbers, is it not more hypocritical to jump up and down about the BLM demos and subsequent evidence but not more robustly challenge the performance of the government? Given the balance of evidence? |
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henry
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Post by henry on Mar 24, 2021 21:10:44 GMT
Our forefathers would be disgusted and turn over in their graves to find what this country has become. Not mine That doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. |
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