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Post by baggins on Oct 27, 2020 13:45:55 GMT
Yes I get that. But in reality he just responds with a series of simplistic tropes, straight out of the garbage can of idiotic media headlines. Let me pick you up on something you opined upon. That is benefit recipients are, I paraphrase, happy to sit back and take the benefits rather than seek work. You and I discussed the impact of the shortage of affordable housing in the UK. With that in mind I think you might agree that the lower the income bracket the higher the % of said income goes on housing costs, including council tax. I maybe out of date here so pick me up if so. But the last time I was still employing people (December 2017) this was a huge issue. Staff were a mixture of full and part time. Where they were single income households they could not afford to pay private sector rents, but as long as they worked under 16 hours they were eligible for rent support and council tax relief. The result was I was always short of staff. It's perverse. The stupid thing is that tax supported housing benefit ended up in private sector pockets, often limited companies who could seek to minimise tax. It's the economics of the madhouse. Far better we took our tax funds, built houses, boosted employment, increased demand by doing so which in itself increases tax revenues. Less benefit cost, more tax income and assets that last a century whilst themselves generating income into the public coffers. So instead of the BS spouted by the village idiot and to some degree by Gastafari on here, we should be pointing a finger at the abject incompetence at the heart of Government (of whatever party). Whilst I have no doubt there is fraud, stupidity and rank ignorance amongst benefit claimants, the real blame lies elsewhere. Look who’s surfaced. What happened, couldn’t you find a suitable repost in your store of Guardian articles? Of course, it’s always someone else's fault in the Marxist world. Harriet Harman? Someone elses fault? Your finger must be down to the last knub. |
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Post by baggins on Oct 27, 2020 13:47:14 GMT
Edward Heath. A fool in his lifetime who believed the lies of people like DeGaulle. Don't you remember how hard Labour campaigned to keep us out, then campaigned to take us out? Whats happened to Labour since, I wonder? So a Tory then. Took us in. With lies? And now the Tories are taking us out again. With lies. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 27, 2020 13:47:46 GMT
Those PMs did a good enough job of it themselves, trying to sound assertive for the Eurosceptic wing whilst retaining the Europhile wing. It was always about uniting the Conservative Party. It can be safely assumed you are quite happy to remain inside an authoritative regime that’s intent on taking the sovereignty of every nation and imposing it’s own regime on them. I suppose one shouldn’t expect anything else from a Marxist, in Marxists Corner. Sorry but you either don't read what I've posted before or blindly ignored it. The only other plausible explanation is that you are merely trying to get a reaction with even more outlandish language or are a parody account. Which is it?😀 |
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Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 13:48:57 GMT
You will eat your words when this is all settled. It is settled. They're progressing, we're going backwards. Oh, Good God. |
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Post by baggins on Oct 27, 2020 13:51:20 GMT
It is settled. They're progressing, we're going backwards. Oh, Good God. He won't save us. |
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Post by Gassy on Oct 27, 2020 13:54:02 GMT
Suggest you calm down and re-read my post as you’ve sent 2 posts to this. I have never said anything about privately owned businesses in France, you’ve just made that up yourself. So no, I am not telling you that. I also do not need to list any countries that follow 100% ‘of my socialist values’ - seeming as I have never claimed that I am a socialist, nor that there are any countries that follow 100% socialism. I also did not ask, nor need your justification of why you live in France. I have seen your other post, I’m fully aware of your situation and I do not believe that anyone here needs to justify a reasoning. The point I was saying, if you read my post again, is that France is probably one of the most socialist countries in Europe, perhaps that’s changed, but no doubt you’re living and enjoying life in a left country, whilst supporting and voting right values. I find this odd. I can only assume that you enjoy living in the left sided country - so I find it strange that someone would then vote for right wing, when they’ve already admitted their life is much better and healthier, without that lifestyle. That is my point, nothing else. Apologies for any confusion. My Apologies Gassy. I just don't see France as a socialist country that follow socialist principles. I see socialism as a concept that has not been fully tried tested and successful anywhere. If it were so great why are there no "real" socalist countries today. ( que a barrage of insults from others). I do enjoy my life style but "socialist" or left wing France hasn't given me that I got that opportunity from the UK. As I've said the state of France has not provided us with €1 of help . During lockdown our income here was €0 because my wife despite working for 12 years paying into the system and paying all her taxes "didn't qualify" due to the type of contract she had with the (Governments) Education Nationale. How is that looking after residents. When we moved to France the President was Nicolas Sarkozy who presided under the UMP party of the centre right. Again Gassy apologies didn't mean to offend you. No worries FG, it happens to all of us - when I originally wrote 'without wanting to make any presumptions about FG's life', I was trying to phrase it the best way I could, so the blame lies with me for poor phrasing too. I don't actually think socialism alone is 'so great' - so to speak. I don't think a single social construct is perfect, does anyone? I think there are definitely more elements we can use though and probably could do with more of. I also think parts of the reasons socialism probably doesn't exist as much as it could/should is down to greed, politics, lobbying, corruption, power and the sheer amount of money there is in the world these days. I don't think you have to have claimed any benefits in life in order to get the most out of socialist, it runs much deeper than just not working and claiming benefits. The NHS being a good example here. I'll take it on the chin though about France, historically I've always considered them a very left, socialist country/culture - but will have to do some more updated reading on them as the views are quite outdated, judging from your posts. One thing I will say about Europe Vs UK is that the work/life balance is much, much better and healthier, which I'm sure you'd generally agree? If not, I'd genuinely be curious to hear about your experience on that. I wonder though, is this just part of our culture, or something driven by our more capitalistic nature? |
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Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 13:55:52 GMT
Edward Heath. A fool in his lifetime who believed the lies of people like DeGaulle. Don't you remember how hard Labour campaigned to keep us out, then campaigned to take us out? Whats happened to Labour since, I wonder? So a Tory then. Took us in. With lies? And now the Tories are taking us out again. With lies. I believe I suggested the lies, about it merely being a Common Market of trading nations were the lies, told to that fool Heath by the likes of DeGaulle. You do know who he was, don’t you? As far as I’m concerned, the lies have been the preserve of the Remain camp. Remember Project Fear? I’ve still got that pamphlet of lies issued by that turncoat Remainer traitor Cameron. |
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Post by francegas on Oct 27, 2020 13:56:19 GMT
You will eat your words when this is all settled. It is settled. They're progressing, we're going backwards. Ah the great EU family who rallied around and supported Italy when it needed help at the start of the pandemic. So much so that Italy eventually got assistance by may of doctors and medical equipment from Russia, China and Cuba. |
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Post by baggins on Oct 27, 2020 13:57:05 GMT
So a Tory then. Took us in. With lies? And now the Tories are taking us out again. With lies. I believe I suggested the lies, about it merely being a Common Market of trading nations were the lies, told to that fool Heath by the likes of DeGaulle. You do know who he was, don’t you? As far as I’m concerned, the lies have been the preserve of the Remain camp. Remember Project Fear? I’ve still got that pamphlet of lies issued by that turncoat Remainer traitor Cameron. You want lies? Coach. Big red one. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 13:58:47 GMT
I like trying to understand the thought process and where the lack of empathy comes from, but it really is noticeable how wedded you the ideology they all are. To me, I just can’t understand how they can be so concerned about wastage in the benefits system which, whilst obviously not right, can’t be costing anywhere near as much as the blatant taking from the public purse at the highest level through contract shenanigans. How can they fail to condemn that? The strongest I’ve seen from francegas Eric and the like was oldgas just then with “yeah it’s not good but...” followed by more deflection. It’s staggering how the Tories fail to be held to account. They are like a cult. David Koresh could learn a thing or two from Tory ideology. Yes I get that. But in reality he just responds with a series of simplistic tropes, straight out of the garbage can of idiotic media headlines. Let me pick you up on something you opined upon. That is benefit recipients are, I paraphrase, happy to sit back and take the benefits rather than seek work. You and I discussed the impact of the shortage of affordable housing in the UK. With that in mind I think you might agree that the lower the income bracket the higher the % of said income goes on housing costs, including council tax. I maybe out of date here so pick me up if so. But the last time I was still employing people (December 2017) this was a huge issue. Staff were a mixture of full and part time. Where they were single income households they could not afford to pay private sector rents, but as long as they worked under 16 hours they were eligible for rent support and council tax relief. The result was I was always short of staff. It's perverse. The stupid thing is that tax supported housing benefit ended up in private sector pockets, often limited companies who could seek to minimise tax. It's the economics of the madhouse. Far better we took our tax funds, built houses, boosted employment, increased demand by doing so which in itself increases tax revenues. Less benefit cost, more tax income and assets that last a century whilst themselves generating income into the public coffers. So instead of the BS spouted by the village idiot and to some degree by Gastafari on here, we should be pointing a finger at the abject incompetence at the heart of Government (of whatever party). Whilst I have no doubt there is fraud, stupidity and rank ignorance amongst benefit claimants, the real blame lies elsewhere. I totally agree and my response to gastafari was trying to clumsily make the point that you have made with an actual working example. I think we need to hold our hands up that there are people who milk the system, no doubt. I’ve heard of women who encourage their friends to have kids because of the benefits it affords in terms of extra payments and priority council housing, but as a victim of benefits myself I’ve seen what it’s like for a white male and it’s grim and depressing so the people who are making “a living” off of it are actually extreme cases in my view. And if people DO feel that it pays more than working it is because of savings in child care costs and because wages aren’t keeping up with rents as you have described yourself. It wasn’t explicitly clear but were you making the point that private companies are in on the buy to let game too? I haven’t heard that and in my dealings with landlords it’s always been an individual rather than a company but it wouldn’t surprise me at all. I totally agree about the wastage in housing benefit- it’s more tax payer money going into private hands and when a good number of Tory MPs are landlords themselves you can see that it’s another way of dipping their hand in the till. But as usual oldgas doesn’t care about housing benefit wastage (maybe he is a landlord himself?). All this wastage going on and yet he only has eyes for the people involved, some might say he just has a vendetta against people with sod all for some reason. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 14:01:03 GMT
It is settled. They're progressing, we're going backwards. Ah the great EU family who rallied around and supported Italy when it needed help at the start of the pandemic. So much so that Italy eventually got assistance by may of doctors and medical equipment from Russia, China and Cuba. Good old socialist countries strike again, helping a country out in their time of need. Wouldn’t happen in England. |
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Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 14:04:23 GMT
It can be safely assumed you are quite happy to remain inside an authoritative regime that’s intent on taking the sovereignty of every nation and imposing it’s own regime on them. I suppose one shouldn’t expect anything else from a Marxist, in Marxists Corner. Sorry but you either don't read what I've posted before or blindly ignored it. The only other plausible explanation is that you are merely trying to get a reaction with even more outlandish language or are a parody account. Which is it?😀 Are you saying you asked Oldie to comment on Harriet Harman, or did you make some sort of reply on his behalf? you have, after all taken up the cudgels on behalf of another poster regarding my question to Oldie. You May think I am looking for a reaction, but think how boring theses threads would be if I didn’t amuse myself by poking and prodding you all. You’d have no one to rage at, and it must be boring agreeing with and patting each other on the back as you advance your ridiculous left wing ideas. |
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Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 14:06:38 GMT
I believe I suggested the lies, about it merely being a Common Market of trading nations were the lies, told to that fool Heath by the likes of DeGaulle. You do know who he was, don’t you? As far as I’m concerned, the lies have been the preserve of the Remain camp. Remember Project Fear? I’ve still got that pamphlet of lies issued by that turncoat Remainer traitor Cameron. You want lies? Coach. Big red one. It’s been proven that the claims on that bus were essentially correct. Some little Remainer tried taking the government to court over that and got his stupid little arse kicked. Did you contribute to the crowd funding? |
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Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 14:10:38 GMT
Yes I get that. But in reality he just responds with a series of simplistic tropes, straight out of the garbage can of idiotic media headlines. Let me pick you up on something you opined upon. That is benefit recipients are, I paraphrase, happy to sit back and take the benefits rather than seek work. You and I discussed the impact of the shortage of affordable housing in the UK. With that in mind I think you might agree that the lower the income bracket the higher the % of said income goes on housing costs, including council tax. I maybe out of date here so pick me up if so. But the last time I was still employing people (December 2017) this was a huge issue. Staff were a mixture of full and part time. Where they were single income households they could not afford to pay private sector rents, but as long as they worked under 16 hours they were eligible for rent support and council tax relief. The result was I was always short of staff. It's perverse. The stupid thing is that tax supported housing benefit ended up in private sector pockets, often limited companies who could seek to minimise tax. It's the economics of the madhouse. Far better we took our tax funds, built houses, boosted employment, increased demand by doing so which in itself increases tax revenues. Less benefit cost, more tax income and assets that last a century whilst themselves generating income into the public coffers. So instead of the BS spouted by the village idiot and to some degree by Gastafari on here, we should be pointing a finger at the abject incompetence at the heart of Government (of whatever party). Whilst I have no doubt there is fraud, stupidity and rank ignorance amongst benefit claimants, the real blame lies elsewhere. I totally agree and my response to gastafari was trying to clumsily make the point that you have made with an actual working example. I think we need to hold our hands up that there are people who milk the system, no doubt. I’ve heard of women who encourage their friends to have kids because of the benefits it affords in terms of extra payments and priority council housing, but as a victim of benefits myself I’ve seen what it’s like for a white male and it’s grim and depressing so the people who are making “a living” off of it are actually extreme cases in my view. And if people DO feel that it pays more than working it is because of savings in child care costs and because wages aren’t keeping up with rents as you have described yourself. It wasn’t explicitly clear but were you making the point that private companies are in on the buy to let game too? I haven’t heard that and in my dealings with landlords it’s always been an individual rather than a company but it wouldn’t surprise me at all. I totally agree about the wastage in housing benefit- it’s more tax payer money going into private hands and when a good number of Tory MPs are landlords themselves you can see that it’s another way of dipping their hand in the till. But as usual oldgas doesn’t care about housing benefit wastage (maybe he is a landlord himself?). All this wastage going on and yet he only has eyes for the people involved, some might say he just has a vendetta against people with sod all for some reason. Just imagine, if we hadn’t had the Blair government then the EU flooding us with immigrants we wouldn’t have a housing problem. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 14:13:09 GMT
Oldgas is creaming his crusty Y-fronts in here lol.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 14:16:42 GMT
I totally agree and my response to gastafari was trying to clumsily make the point that you have made with an actual working example. I think we need to hold our hands up that there are people who milk the system, no doubt. I’ve heard of women who encourage their friends to have kids because of the benefits it affords in terms of extra payments and priority council housing, but as a victim of benefits myself I’ve seen what it’s like for a white male and it’s grim and depressing so the people who are making “a living” off of it are actually extreme cases in my view. And if people DO feel that it pays more than working it is because of savings in child care costs and because wages aren’t keeping up with rents as you have described yourself. It wasn’t explicitly clear but were you making the point that private companies are in on the buy to let game too? I haven’t heard that and in my dealings with landlords it’s always been an individual rather than a company but it wouldn’t surprise me at all. I totally agree about the wastage in housing benefit- it’s more tax payer money going into private hands and when a good number of Tory MPs are landlords themselves you can see that it’s another way of dipping their hand in the till. But as usual oldgas doesn’t care about housing benefit wastage (maybe he is a landlord himself?). All this wastage going on and yet he only has eyes for the people involved, some might say he just has a vendetta against people with sod all for some reason. Just imagine, if we hadn’t had the Blair government then the EU flooding us with immigrants we wouldn’t have a housing problem. “B-b-b-b-b-but Labour!!!1” |
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Post by francegas on Oct 27, 2020 14:18:07 GMT
Ah the great EU family who rallied around and supported Italy when it needed help at the start of the pandemic. So much so that Italy eventually got assistance by may of doctors and medical equipment from Russia, China and Cuba. Good old socialist countries strike again, helping a country out in their time of need. Wouldn’t happen in England. Don't you mean communist countries. If your implying England wouldn't help out a country in need has the events of 1939 to 1945 gone unnoticed. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 14:18:36 GMT
Oldgas is creaming his crusty Y-fronts in here lol. The scary thing is, he had voting rights. Just let that sink in for a second. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 14:20:52 GMT
Good old socialist countries strike again, helping a country out in their time of need. Wouldn’t happen in England. Don't you mean communist countries. If your implying England wouldn't help out a country in need has the events of 1939 to 1945 gone unnoticed. Why am I not surprised that you were the one who pointed that out? 🤔 |
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Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 14:26:51 GMT
Oldgas is creaming his crusty Y-fronts in here lol. Why? |
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