|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Apr 13, 2021 14:33:57 GMT
I have to confess to seeing the irony in this, you could also exchange conservatism for socialism and it would still read right. Lol maybe my line was too simplistic. There is a huge difference between conservatism and socialism though, they are fundamentally opposed in visions. Of course, I was also referring to the cynical comment as I think you have shown plenty of that too. I've also seen plenty of comments regarding socialism and indeed, communism, by those professing its superiority. When if fails, it's often branded as the 'wrong sort' or 'not far enough'. |
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on Apr 13, 2021 14:35:58 GMT
No, you did not make a comparison of right vs left wing. You said "If true. It's from the Guardian, so very doubtful it will be. I am sure if people started posting links of articles from The Daily Mail, you wouldn't believe most of it, and rightly so. The Guardian is no different." You made a comparison that they command the same respect of standard of reporting and truth telling - bringing it back to the Guardian being the most awarded paper in the UK. You mistake replying to you as 'jumping on it', because as we've seen - you cannot be challenged, nor admit that your opinion is not 100% correct all the time. I also said they were 'Both at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum of course. Right and Left' "It's no different to The Daily Mail. Both full of absolute garbage from both sides" "It's balanced, im saying that the Right Wing Daily Mail is mostly full of garbage, but so is the Left Wing Guardian" Also "So The Daily Mail is Britains most Right Wing Paper and The Guardian is Britains most Left Wing paper. Pretty much what I was saying isn't it? We can all debate on how Left or Right they are, imo they're as bad as eachother" C'mon Gassy. As ever you saw something that wasn't there and started arguing for no reason. No, as ever you made a ridiculous comparison - got called out on it and started to change your story. Your original point suggested the story wouldn't be true because it's from the Guardian. You then later changed that/re-clarified what you meant, which is fair enough. Then the topic was discussed and we moved on. But now you're complaining that you got 'jumped on' because the ridiculous comparison you originally made, was ridiculous. |
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 13, 2021 14:42:32 GMT
I also said they were 'Both at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum of course. Right and Left' "It's no different to The Daily Mail. Both full of absolute garbage from both sides" "It's balanced, im saying that the Right Wing Daily Mail is mostly full of garbage, but so is the Left Wing Guardian" Also "So The Daily Mail is Britains most Right Wing Paper and The Guardian is Britains most Left Wing paper. Pretty much what I was saying isn't it? We can all debate on how Left or Right they are, imo they're as bad as eachother" C'mon Gassy. As ever you saw something that wasn't there and started arguing for no reason. No, as ever you made a ridiculous comparison - got called out on it and started to change your story. Your original point suggested the story wouldn't be true because it's from the Guardian. You then later changed that/re-clarified what you meant, which is fair enough. Then the topic was discussed and we moved on. But now you're complaining that you got 'jumped on' because the ridiculous comparison you originally made, was ridiculous. Why is it a ridiculous comparison? You may think that The Guardian is not as 'Left Wing' as I do, but my point IMO was pretty straight forward. Yeah, I did say 'If True', what's wrong with that? IMO The Guardian(The Left) and The Daily Mail(The Right) are both full of absolute garbage. What's your issue? |
|
|
|
Post by yattongas on Apr 13, 2021 14:44:22 GMT
I also said they were 'Both at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum of course. Right and Left' "It's no different to The Daily Mail. Both full of absolute garbage from both sides" "It's balanced, im saying that the Right Wing Daily Mail is mostly full of garbage, but so is the Left Wing Guardian" Also "So The Daily Mail is Britains most Right Wing Paper and The Guardian is Britains most Left Wing paper. Pretty much what I was saying isn't it? We can all debate on how Left or Right they are, imo they're as bad as eachother" C'mon Gassy. As ever you saw something that wasn't there and started arguing for no reason. No, as ever you made a ridiculous comparison - got called out on it and started to change your story. Your original point suggested the story wouldn't be true because it's from the Guardian. You then later changed that/re-clarified what you meant, which is fair enough. Then the topic was discussed and we moved on. But now you're complaining that you got 'jumped on' because the ridiculous comparison you originally made, was ridiculous. I thought the ‘jumped on’ comment was Gastafari’s claim that he said the cop shooting could of been just down to an over zealous cop and inferring that posters had put it down to racism. I’ve asked him to point out where & when this comment was jumped on as I can’t see it ? Maybe I missed it . |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Apr 13, 2021 14:50:53 GMT
You dont Gastafari But you do have an antagonistic style. I have tried to have a discussion with you, out of genuine interest given your perspective, on the causal factors behind educational outcomes, but you shouted at me and demanded to know about white Irish. I have already agreed with you that there other factors at play, but I dont exclude racism as a factor, on an equal level as elitist entitlement in white education differentials. But you wont engage, you just shout about the over use of racism. I did wonder, as I suspect our political leanings differ, you dont want to because you know where I am going to go with that discussion. Yes I do, Oldie. When I replied to the post about the Cop in Virginia, all I asked was it to do with the Victims race or just another over zealous Cop. As ever, the usual suspects jumped straight on it, and started arguing for no reason. No different to what you've written. In regards to your other point, I think it's you that doesn't want to have the discussion, again all i've stated is that I'm speaking honestly from my perspective of coming from that community in question. It's you and others that dont want to listen to it and complain about stereotypes. I have never denied racism exists. Ever. All I've said is that I don't believe racism has much to do with how different demographics fare whether it be Education, Employment or whatever. Yet again, you just don't want to hear it. I do want to hear it very much. Because I really want to know what you think the factors are that drive equally poor educational outcomes for white working class kids and afro carribbean kids. |
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 13, 2021 14:54:21 GMT
No, as ever you made a ridiculous comparison - got called out on it and started to change your story. Your original point suggested the story wouldn't be true because it's from the Guardian. You then later changed that/re-clarified what you meant, which is fair enough. Then the topic was discussed and we moved on. But now you're complaining that you got 'jumped on' because the ridiculous comparison you originally made, was ridiculous. I thought the ‘jumped on’ comment was Gastafari’s claim that he said the cop shooting could of been just down to an over zealous cop and inferring that posters had put it down to racism. I’ve asked him to point out where & when this comment was jumped on as I can’t see it ? Maybe I missed it . I stated Yes, it looks like its another over zealous Cop, but is it anything to with the 'Victim' being a 'Minority'? Gassy: "Ah yes of course, Latinos can’t be racist against black people - only whites can" Barbrady: "The Milgram experiment springs to mind no?" Barbrady: "So what did you mean by that exactly as you feel it pertanent to the story that they are both minorities? I think that's exactly what you meant and you are now trying to claim otherwise" Barbrady: "You suspect its less likely to be due to race because the offender was also from a minority group? Don't let me put words in your mouth but thats what I'm understanding from what you have written. Doubting a racial motive due to minority status of alleged offender? That right?" There's just 3 examples, all because I dared to ask the question of whether it had anything to do with the victims race or another over zealous cop. |
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 13, 2021 14:59:32 GMT
Yes I do, Oldie. When I replied to the post about the Cop in Virginia, all I asked was it to do with the Victims race or just another over zealous Cop. As ever, the usual suspects jumped straight on it, and started arguing for no reason. No different to what you've written. In regards to your other point, I think it's you that doesn't want to have the discussion, again all i've stated is that I'm speaking honestly from my perspective of coming from that community in question. It's you and others that dont want to listen to it and complain about stereotypes. I have never denied racism exists. Ever. All I've said is that I don't believe racism has much to do with how different demographics fare whether it be Education, Employment or whatever. Yet again, you just don't want to hear it. I do want to hear it very much. Because I really want to know what you think the factors are that drive equally poor educational outcomes for white working class kids and afro carribbean kids. And I've asked you. Why are you seperating 'Afro-carribbean' from other Black groups, but are not prepared to do it with other 'White Groups'? All I've said is that imo and from my experience it's more to do with 'cultural' issues,fathers disproportionately not being around, 'Gang or Ghetto' culture as 3 examples. Of course you and others have just classed it as stereotypes. |
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on Apr 13, 2021 15:08:13 GMT
No, as ever you made a ridiculous comparison - got called out on it and started to change your story. Your original point suggested the story wouldn't be true because it's from the Guardian. You then later changed that/re-clarified what you meant, which is fair enough. Then the topic was discussed and we moved on. But now you're complaining that you got 'jumped on' because the ridiculous comparison you originally made, was ridiculous. Why is it a ridiculous comparison? You may think that The Guardian is not as 'Left Wing' as I do, but my point IMO was pretty straight forward. Yeah, I did say 'If True', what's wrong with that? IMO The Guardian(The Left) and The Daily Mail(The Right) are both full of absolute garbage. What's your issue? *sigh* I don't know how many times I need to keep repeating it. Your first statement, you made a comparison that the Guardian & DM command the same respect of standard of reporting and truth telling. I agree with Guardian is left wing, but that wasn't the original point you made. You then backtracked and changed what you meant and then it was dropped. So clearly, my issue is around the direct comparison that they're of the same reporting standards and truth telling. You then complained about being jumped on, I'm giving my reasoning why I disagreed. I'm not sure why this is so difficult. I stated Yes, it looks like its another over zealous Cop, but is it anything to with the 'Victim' being a 'Minority'? Gassy: "Ah yes of course, Latinos can’t be racist against black people - only whites can" HA! You see before, I thought you were just confused - now I know you're just being a WUM. Let's review the entire post shall we? Yeah, that doesn't look great. However it's interesting how they mention Caron Nazario's race in the article, but fail to mention that one of the officers Joe Gutierrez is also Latino.It says "The lawsuit comes at a time of increased scrutiny over alleged police brutality towards minorities and racial justice", but fails to mention that Gutierrez is a 'Minority' himself. So again, I think it's important to look at the facts. Yes, it looks like its another over zealous Cop, but is it anything to with the 'Victim' being a 'Minority'? You conveniently left that bit out. Wonder why. |
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 13, 2021 15:15:19 GMT
Why is it a ridiculous comparison? You may think that The Guardian is not as 'Left Wing' as I do, but my point IMO was pretty straight forward. Yeah, I did say 'If True', what's wrong with that? IMO The Guardian(The Left) and The Daily Mail(The Right) are both full of absolute garbage. What's your issue? *sigh* I don't know how many times I need to keep repeating it. Your first statement, you made a comparison that the Guardian & DM command the same respect of standard of reporting and truth telling. I agree with Guardian is left wing, but that wasn't the original point you made. You then backtracked and changed what you meant and then it was dropped. So clearly, my issue is around the direct comparison that they're of the same reporting standards and truth telling. You then complained about being jumped on, I'm giving my reasoning why I disagreed. I'm not sure why this is so difficult. I stated Yes, it looks like its another over zealous Cop, but is it anything to with the 'Victim' being a 'Minority'? Gassy: "Ah yes of course, Latinos can’t be racist against black people - only whites can" HA! You see before, I thought you were just confused - now I know you're just being a WUM. Let's review the entire post shall we? Yeah, that doesn't look great. However it's interesting how they mention Caron Nazario's race in the article, but fail to mention that one of the officers Joe Gutierrez is also Latino.It says "The lawsuit comes at a time of increased scrutiny over alleged police brutality towards minorities and racial justice", but fails to mention that Gutierrez is a 'Minority' himself. So again, I think it's important to look at the facts. Yes, it looks like its another over zealous Cop, but is it anything to with the 'Victim' being a 'Minority'? You conveniently left that bit out. Wonder why. Gassy, seriously. What are you going on about? It just proves yet again that you argue just for the sake of it. I stated that I found it interesting that they didn't mention his race, yes. And your point is? My point still stands. |
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on Apr 13, 2021 15:27:31 GMT
*sigh* I don't know how many times I need to keep repeating it. Your first statement, you made a comparison that the Guardian & DM command the same respect of standard of reporting and truth telling. I agree with Guardian is left wing, but that wasn't the original point you made. You then backtracked and changed what you meant and then it was dropped. So clearly, my issue is around the direct comparison that they're of the same reporting standards and truth telling. You then complained about being jumped on, I'm giving my reasoning why I disagreed. I'm not sure why this is so difficult. HA! You see before, I thought you were just confused - now I know you're just being a WUM. Let's review the entire post shall we? You conveniently left that bit out. Wonder why. Gassy, seriously. What are you going on about? It just proves yet again that you argue just for the sake of it. I stated that I found it interesting that they didn't mention his race, yes. And your point is? My point still stands. Not at all, you're trying to take control of the narrative by changing the story. It happens over and over. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 15:29:27 GMT
Lol maybe my line was too simplistic. There is a huge difference between conservatism and socialism though, they are fundamentally opposed in visions. Of course, I was also referring to the cynical comment as I think you have shown plenty of that too. I've also seen plenty of comments regarding socialism and indeed, communism, by those professing its superiority. When if fails, it's often branded as the 'wrong sort' or 'not far enough'. Lost in translation. I was saying the conservative vision is cynical by definition. Really what I'm trying to say is too much for a few sentences on here really... And I don't think anyone is overly interested! Too try and explain politics in a sentence or two really is folly. Will join the daily mail v guardian argument... Daily mail is fascist, the guardian is liberal! |
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 13, 2021 15:36:01 GMT
Gassy, seriously. What are you going on about? It just proves yet again that you argue just for the sake of it. I stated that I found it interesting that they didn't mention his race, yes. And your point is? My point still stands. Not at all, you're trying to take control of the narrative by changing the story. It happens over and over. No. That's precisely what you've done. I simply asked the question whether the incident had anything to do with the victims race or just another over zealous cop. I also found it interesting that the officers race wasn't mentioned, while the victims was. You then tried taking the narrative somewhere else along with Barbrady by making wild accusations, and in Barbradys words "Putting words in my mouth" by insinuating and seeing things that weren't there, as per usual. Lets just leave it there. |
|
|
|
Post by francegas on Apr 13, 2021 16:47:55 GMT
The Guardian newspaper has been named "Newspaper of the year" 4 times at the annual British Press Awards the last time was in 2014.
The Daily Mail newspaper has been named "Newspaper of the year" 8 times at the annual British Press Awards the last time was in 2019.
Just saying.
Personally I don't read either.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Apr 13, 2021 17:11:10 GMT
I do want to hear it very much. Because I really want to know what you think the factors are that drive equally poor educational outcomes for white working class kids and afro carribbean kids. And I've asked you. Why are you seperating 'Afro-carribbean' from other Black groups, but are not prepared to do it with other 'White Groups'? All I've said is that imo and from my experience it's more to do with 'cultural' issues,fathers disproportionately not being around, 'Gang or Ghetto' culture as 3 examples. Of course you and others have just classed it as stereotypes. " Why are you seperating 'Afro-carribbean' from other Black groups, but are not prepared to do it with other 'White Groups'?" Because you did. You were jumping up and down about separating afro carribbean groups from say African (I think you mentioned Nigeria) So taking your point that its afro carribbean kids not black kids generally that have poor education outcomes, equal to those of white working class kids, what common denominators, in your opinion? |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Apr 13, 2021 17:13:48 GMT
The Guardian newspaper has been named "Newspaper of the year" 4 times at the annual British Press Awards the last time was in 2014. The Daily Mail newspaper has been named "Newspaper of the year" 8 times at the annual British Press Awards the last time was in 2019. Just saying. Personally I don't read either. Out of interest, given your chosen location, where do you acquire your information? No agenda, just interested. I have family in The Hague and Brussels, we have similar questions on information sources. |
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 13, 2021 17:36:00 GMT
And I've asked you. Why are you seperating 'Afro-carribbean' from other Black groups, but are not prepared to do it with other 'White Groups'? All I've said is that imo and from my experience it's more to do with 'cultural' issues,fathers disproportionately not being around, 'Gang or Ghetto' culture as 3 examples. Of course you and others have just classed it as stereotypes. " Why are you seperating 'Afro-carribbean' from other Black groups, but are not prepared to do it with other 'White Groups'?" Because you did. You were jumping up and down about separating afro carribbean groups from say African (I think you mentioned Nigeria) So taking your point that its afro carribbean kids not black kids generally that have poor education outcomes, equal to those of white working class kids, what common denominators, in your opinion? Exactly. Because it's important for the discussion. Too delve deeper You don't want to though, as you're lumping all Whites together, while seperating 'Afro-carribbean. As I've discussed there are variants depending on 'Culture' or 'Religion', like there is between Indian and Pakistani, or British and Irish/Polish/ or Albanian, likewise there is Afro-carribbean or Nigerian or Somalian. I don't know what your point is, here? I've already said what I believe it to be down too, mostly. Again, you don't want to listen to it! |
|
|
|
Post by yattongas on Apr 13, 2021 19:43:53 GMT
I thought the ‘jumped on’ comment was Gastafari’s claim that he said the cop shooting could of been just down to an over zealous cop and inferring that posters had put it down to racism. I’ve asked him to point out where & when this comment was jumped on as I can’t see it ? Maybe I missed it . I stated Yes, it looks like its another over zealous Cop, but is it anything to with the 'Victim' being a 'Minority'? Gassy: "Ah yes of course, Latinos can’t be racist against black people - only whites can" Barbrady: "The Milgram experiment springs to mind no?" Barbrady: "So what did you mean by that exactly as you feel it pertanent to the story that they are both minorities? I think that's exactly what you meant and you are now trying to claim otherwise" Barbrady: "You suspect its less likely to be due to race because the offender was also from a minority group? Don't let me put words in your mouth but thats what I'm understanding from what you have written. Doubting a racial motive due to minority status of alleged offender? That right?" There's just 3 examples, all because I dared to ask the question of whether it had anything to do with the victims race or another over zealous cop. I wouldn’t say that was jumping all over your comment ..... but hey ho . |
|
|
|
Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 13, 2021 19:49:41 GMT
I thought the ‘jumped on’ comment was Gastafari’s claim that he said the cop shooting could of been just down to an over zealous cop and inferring that posters had put it down to racism. I’ve asked him to point out where & when this comment was jumped on as I can’t see it ? Maybe I missed it . I stated Yes, it looks like its another over zealous Cop, but is it anything to with the 'Victim' being a 'Minority'? Gassy: "Ah yes of course, Latinos can’t be racist against black people - only whites can" Barbrady: "The Milgram experiment springs to mind no?" Barbrady: "So what did you mean by that exactly as you feel it pertanent to the story that they are both minorities? I think that's exactly what you meant and you are now trying to claim otherwise" Barbrady: "You suspect its less likely to be due to race because the offender was also from a minority group? Don't let me put words in your mouth but thats what I'm understanding from what you have written. Doubting a racial motive due to minority status of alleged offender? That right?" There's just 3 examples, all because I dared to ask the question of whether it had anything to do with the victims race or another over zealous cop. Sorry are we just supposed to respond to your posts by saying 'gastafari has spoken, that's the end of that thread'? Are we not allowed to ask you questions without you interpreting that as us giving you a hard time? |
|
|
|
Post by yattongas on Apr 13, 2021 19:53:51 GMT
I stated Yes, it looks like its another over zealous Cop, but is it anything to with the 'Victim' being a 'Minority'? Gassy: "Ah yes of course, Latinos can’t be racist against black people - only whites can" Barbrady: "The Milgram experiment springs to mind no?" Barbrady: "So what did you mean by that exactly as you feel it pertanent to the story that they are both minorities? I think that's exactly what you meant and you are now trying to claim otherwise" Barbrady: "You suspect its less likely to be due to race because the offender was also from a minority group? Don't let me put words in your mouth but thats what I'm understanding from what you have written. Doubting a racial motive due to minority status of alleged offender? That right?" There's just 3 examples, all because I dared to ask the question of whether it had anything to do with the victims race or another over zealous cop. Sorry are we just supposed to respond to your posts by saying 'gastafari has spoken, that's the end of that thread'? Are we not allowed to ask you questions without you interpreting that as us giving you a hard time? Yep ,thems the rules now. |
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Apr 13, 2021 21:37:52 GMT
I stated Yes, it looks like its another over zealous Cop, but is it anything to with the 'Victim' being a 'Minority'? Gassy: "Ah yes of course, Latinos can’t be racist against black people - only whites can" Barbrady: "The Milgram experiment springs to mind no?" Barbrady: "So what did you mean by that exactly as you feel it pertanent to the story that they are both minorities? I think that's exactly what you meant and you are now trying to claim otherwise" Barbrady: "You suspect its less likely to be due to race because the offender was also from a minority group? Don't let me put words in your mouth but thats what I'm understanding from what you have written. Doubting a racial motive due to minority status of alleged offender? That right?" There's just 3 examples, all because I dared to ask the question of whether it had anything to do with the victims race or another over zealous cop. Sorry are we just supposed to respond to your posts by saying 'gastafari has spoken, that's the end of that thread'? Are we not allowed to ask you questions without you interpreting that as us giving you a hard time? No, of course not. However if you start making wild assumptions and insinuate things that aren't there, and "putting words in my mouth" it's a bit different isn't it? |
|
