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Post by Gastafari on Dec 22, 2017 15:00:47 GMT
The Ashton Vale project was a dead duck by 2010. The revamped Ashton Gate was finished last season . The Play Off final was 10 seasons ago. Wrong. The Ashton vale project eas conceived in 2010. It went to the High Court in Jan 2012 and City pulled the plug late 2013 and announced they would redevelop Ashton Gate. No it wasn't. It was conceived in 2007. By 2010 it had PP but it was never going to go anywhere. Lansdown took 3 years fighting the NIMBYS knowing full well it wasn't going to go anywhere, pulling the plug as you said in in 2013. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 15:03:31 GMT
Or money for players...... Not sure money for players falls in the 'false dawn' category since they said from day one they weren't going throwing money around on transfer fees. The potential downgrade in plans for the training ground should be more of an issue for the players than us. I'm sure it will still be a tremendous facility and they paid £1m for the plot didn't they? It will be the first time since the mid 80's that we've owned our own training ground after spending years in a chocolate factory, the grounds of a hotel and renting from an insurance company It's not a training ground yet and what do BRFC own nothing I don't think |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 15:19:21 GMT
Wrong. The Ashton vale project eas conceived in 2010. It went to the High Court in Jan 2012 and City pulled the plug late 2013 and announced they would redevelop Ashton Gate. No it wasn't. It was conceived in 2007. By 2010 it had PP but it was never going to go anywhere. Lansdown took 3 years fighting the NIMBYS knowing full well it wasn't going to go anywhere, pulling the plug as you said in in 2013. Plans submitted Aug 2013, PP granted Nov 2013, work starts April 2014. |
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 22, 2017 15:26:43 GMT
No it wasn't. It was conceived in 2007. By 2010 it had PP but it was never going to go anywhere. Lansdown took 3 years fighting the NIMBYS knowing full well it wasn't going to go anywhere, pulling the plug as you said in in 2013. Plans submitted Aug 2013, PP granted Nov 2013, work starts April 2014. But he had 3 years to plan it, the 3 years Lansdown took fighting the NIMBYS was a smokescreen, knowing full well Ashton Vale wasn't happening. From the start of his ownership to the revamped Ashton Gate now, took 10 years. Whichever way you look at it, Lansdowns been owner 10 years, the Al-Qadi's 18 months, that's my point. The same time frame would be looking where we as a club are in terms of infrastructure, stadium, investment and on and off field improvement in February 2026. That's what I mean by perspective. |
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Post by matealotblue on Dec 22, 2017 15:35:50 GMT
Plans submitted Aug 2013, PP granted Nov 2013, work starts April 2014. But he had 3 years to plan it, the 3 years Lansdown took fighting the NIMBYS was a smokescreen, knowing full well Ashton Vale wasn't happening. From the start of his ownership to the revamped Ashton Gate now, took 10 years. Whichever way you look at it, Lansdowns been owner 10 years, the Al-Qadi's 18 months, that's my point. The same time frame would be looking where we as a club are in terms of infrastructure, stadium, investment and on and off field improvement in February 2026.
That's what I mean by perspective. Which will be over 60 years since I first started supporting this club and we are STILL talking about new/better/improved stadium(s)..... That's perspective!  Think I will give up in my lifetime of ever seeing anything remotely like AG or similar as a home to the quarters. Sad but true. |
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Post by swissgas on Dec 22, 2017 16:06:17 GMT
Some perspective is also needed about the Al Qadi family situation and their capabilities.
Jordan only just makes it into the list of top 100 countries ranked by GDP and is one place below the Democratic Republic of Congo. The AJIB is about the 8th largest bank in Jordan in terms of market capitalisation and it's current stock market valuation is £270 million making the Al Qadi family stake worth about £80 million. Their total family dividend income from AJIB is about £6 million per year with Wael's portion about £700 000 pa.
If the Al Qadi family are not in a position to finance a £25 million redevelopment of the Mem themselves they will have to look for outside investors. If those investors are looking for a 5% return over 25 years the redeveloped Mem will have to be producing net revenues of £1.8 million per year just to pay the outside investors. So to "sell" those investors on the deal someone will have to convince them that the Bristol Rovers business will be able to perform an amazing turnaround from £2 million losses to at least £1.8pa million profits. And then cash has to be found to finance the football team !
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Post by gashead1981 on Dec 22, 2017 16:08:37 GMT
It only took Lansdown that long because of the Ashton Vale project, once he decided to revamp Ashton gate it didn't take long to get it done. They were in the playoff final under Daddy Johnson. The Ashton Vale project was a dead duck by 2010. The revamped Ashton Gate was finished last season . The Play Off final was 10 seasons ago. Think you will find it was 2013. Plans approved for AG March 2014. Building works started May 2014. |
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Post by knowall on Dec 22, 2017 16:15:46 GMT
Some perspective is also needed about the Al Qadi family situation and their capabilities. Jordan only just makes it into the list of top 100 countries ranked by GDP and is one place below the Democratic Republic of Congo. The AJIB is about the 8th largest bank in Jordan in terms of market capitalisation and it's current stock market valuation is £270 million making the Al Qadi family stake worth about £80 million. Their total family dividend income from AJIB is about £6 million per year with Wael's portion about £700 000 pa. If the Al Qadi family are not in a position to finance a £25 million redevelopment of the Mem themselves they will have to look for outside investors. If those investors are looking for a 5% return over 25 years the redeveloped Mem will have to be producing net revenues of £1.8 million per year just to pay the outside investors. So to "sell" those investors on the deal someone will have to convince them that the Bristol Rovers business will be able to perform an amazing turnaround from £2 million losses to at least £1.8pa million profits. And then cash has to be found to finance the football team ! A guide to what could be achieved in terms of income/profit will come when the Accounts for Ashton Gate are published, although it may be difficult to get anywhere an accurate figure regards the football because there are so many sports involved there now |
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Post by socrates on Dec 22, 2017 16:18:34 GMT
The AG redevelopment was announced in late 13 as soon as the AV project died. It was given planning sign off in March 14 enabling build to start at the end of that season. So it took around 6 months to go from no plans to planning sign off and get the diggers in. In fact they waited another 2 months to start to finish off the season. It 2 years to complete. The ALQs came in to a club with PP signed off on a brand new development which was given in 2014. According to Wael, the finances not being a problem. The whole club and project were on display for all the tentative new owners. After 18 months, we pull out. Another 6 months have past of complete silence, no plans and no future vision let alone any form of planning permission. All of the above gives you an idea of timescales. So if we are looking at a Mem redevelopment nothing is going to be built until at least 2020. That’s if we start in June. That is the realistic time frame and why we need to crack on now. In some ways how long the ALQs is kind of irrelevant. If you are looking at what the club actually needs right now, then a stadium is top of the list and number 1 priority. I’m sick of Wael banging on about how things take time. If you don’t have the finances then of course it will, you need to find investors or find a way to raise the cash. If so tell us. Conversely if the money is there, tell us what is taking the time as I’m sure there are some people who can help and advise in getting things done and sorted. The training ground is now 4 pitches and a clubhouse and offices and should take around 6 months to do. So all of this taking time is a complete nonsense as well. I don’t think anyone is unrealistic about build timescales but no one is stupid enough to believe it takes 6 months to get some plans drawn and ideas in place. You could do that inside a couple of weeks. Good post. Cutting through all the crap. Things take time for the ALQs for the simple and obvious reason. THEY DONT HAVE THE MONEY! Zero Dinero! More a case of being very wealthy but the man who controls the money doesn’t want to spend much of it. Surely you don’t really think they haven’t got the money ? |
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Post by blueridge on Dec 22, 2017 16:28:17 GMT
Some perspective is also needed about the Al Qadi family situation and their capabilities. Jordan only just makes it into the list of top 100 countries ranked by GDP and is one place below the Democratic Republic of Congo. The AJIB is about the 8th largest bank in Jordan in terms of market capitalisation and it's current stock market valuation is £270 million making the Al Qadi family stake worth about £80 million. Their total family dividend income from AJIB is about £6 million per year with Wael's portion about £700 000 pa. If the Al Qadi family are not in a position to finance a £25 million redevelopment of the Mem themselves they will have to look for outside investors. If those investors are looking for a 5% return over 25 years the redeveloped Mem will have to be producing net revenues of £1.8 million per year just to pay the outside investors. So to "sell" those investors on the deal someone will have to convince them that the Bristol Rovers business will be able to perform an amazing turnaround from £2 million losses to at least £1.8pa million profits. And then cash has to be found to finance the football team ! Based on this, it really does beg the question - Why? I believed (wrongly) their net assets were significantly higher. IF UWE 'employed' SL (or any expert) in an advisory role he would have seen straight through this and IMO would have advised severe caution (a relatively minor overseas bank with little or no UK credibility) - hence as I've thought all along they were not able to come up with the necessary long term financial guarantees (bonds). |
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Dec 22, 2017 17:07:58 GMT
Good post. Cutting through all the crap. Things take time for the ALQs for the simple and obvious reason. THEY DONT HAVE THE MONEY! Zero Dinero! More a case of being very wealthy but the man who controls the money doesn’t want to spend much of it. Surely you don’t really think they haven’t got the money ? Yes I do think they haven’t got the money. See Swissgas post above. |
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 22, 2017 17:09:48 GMT
But he had 3 years to plan it, the 3 years Lansdown took fighting the NIMBYS was a smokescreen, knowing full well Ashton Vale wasn't happening. From the start of his ownership to the revamped Ashton Gate now, took 10 years. Whichever way you look at it, Lansdowns been owner 10 years, the Al-Qadi's 18 months, that's my point. The same time frame would be looking where we as a club are in terms of infrastructure, stadium, investment and on and off field improvement in February 2026.
That's what I mean by perspective. Which will be over 60 years since I first started supporting this club and we are STILL talking about new/better/improved stadium(s)..... That's perspective! Think I will give up in my lifetime of ever seeing anything remotely like AG or similar as a home to the quarters. Sad but true. But that's not the Al-Qadi's fault is it? Lets just throw all our toys out the pram and expect some Arab blokes just to wave a magic wand or rub a lamp and magically make the previous 140 odd years of our history disapear and miraculously make everything we've ever dreamed about come true in the space of 5 minutes? Is that honestly what you were expecting? Perspective indeed. |
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Dec 22, 2017 17:16:56 GMT
Which will be over 60 years since I first started supporting this club and we are STILL talking about new/better/improved stadium(s)..... That's perspective! Think I will give up in my lifetime of ever seeing anything remotely like AG or similar as a home to the quarters. Sad but true. But that's not the Al-Qadi's fault is it? Lets just throw all our toys out the pram and expect some Arab blokes just to wave a magic wand or rub a lamp and magically make the previous 200 odd years of our history disapear and miraculously make everything we've ever dreamed about come true in the space of 5 minutes? Is that honestly what you were expecting? Perspective indeed. It’s the ALQs fault that they raised expectations when they bought the club. If they’d instead come in Dunford style and the rhetoric was simply about rescuing the club from oblivion and made it clear they didn’t have the money to build a new stadium they’d be getting little or no grief now. |
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Dec 22, 2017 17:18:50 GMT
Which will be over 60 years since I first started supporting this club and we are STILL talking about new/better/improved stadium(s)..... That's perspective! Think I will give up in my lifetime of ever seeing anything remotely like AG or similar as a home to the quarters. Sad but true. But that's not the Al-Qadi's fault is it? Lets just throw all our toys out the pram and expect some Arab blokes just to wave a magic wand or rub a lamp and magically make the previous 140 odd years of our history disapear and miraculously make everything we've ever dreamed about come true in the space of 5 minutes? Is that honestly what you were expecting? Perspective indeed. I’m led to believe the creditors owed money haven’t been paid again. There’s trouble at t’mill |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 17:19:58 GMT
Some perspective is also needed about the Al Qadi family situation and their capabilities. Jordan only just makes it into the list of top 100 countries ranked by GDP and is one place below the Democratic Republic of Congo. The AJIB is about the 8th largest bank in Jordan in terms of market capitalisation and it's current stock market valuation is £270 million making the Al Qadi family stake worth about £80 million. Their total family dividend income from AJIB is about £6 million per year with Wael's portion about £700 000 pa. If the Al Qadi family are not in a position to finance a £25 million redevelopment of the Mem themselves they will have to look for outside investors. If those investors are looking for a 5% return over 25 years the redeveloped Mem will have to be producing net revenues of £1.8 million per year just to pay the outside investors. So to "sell" those investors on the deal someone will have to convince them that the Bristol Rovers business will be able to perform an amazing turnaround from £2 million losses to at least £1.8pa million profits. And then cash has to be found to finance the football team ! Great analysis. Which begs the question.... .....why are they here?!?! |
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Post by Okebournegas on Dec 22, 2017 17:20:36 GMT
Or money for players...... Not sure money for players falls in the 'false dawn' category since they said from day one they weren't going throwing money around on transfer fees. The potential downgrade in plans for the training ground should be more of an issue for the players than us. I'm sure it will still be a tremendous facility and they paid £1m for the plot didn't they? It will be the first time since the mid 80's that we've owned our own training ground after spending years in a chocolate factory, the grounds of a hotel and renting from an insurance company So I imagined Steve hamer saying that we had a top six budget earlier in the season ? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 17:23:26 GMT
Some perspective is also needed about the Al Qadi family situation and their capabilities. Jordan only just makes it into the list of top 100 countries ranked by GDP and is one place below the Democratic Republic of Congo. The AJIB is about the 8th largest bank in Jordan in terms of market capitalisation and it's current stock market valuation is £270 million making the Al Qadi family stake worth about £80 million. Their total family dividend income from AJIB is about £6 million per year with Wael's portion about £700 000 pa. If the Al Qadi family are not in a position to finance a £25 million redevelopment of the Mem themselves they will have to look for outside investors. If those investors are looking for a 5% return over 25 years the redeveloped Mem will have to be producing net revenues of £1.8 million per year just to pay the outside investors. So to "sell" those investors on the deal someone will have to convince them that the Bristol Rovers business will be able to perform an amazing turnaround from £2 million losses to at least £1.8pa million profits. And then cash has to be found to finance the football team ! Based on this, it really does beg the question - Why? I believed (wrongly) their net assets were significantly higher. IF UWE 'employed' SL (or any expert) in an advisory role he would have seen straight through this and IMO would have advised severe caution (a relatively minor overseas bank with little or no UK credibility) - hence as I've thought all along they were not able to come up with the necessary long term financial guarantees (bonds). Swissgas' analysis (if right) suggests it is a plaything for little Wael, which (imo) is corroborated by the interest in Gillingham. A cheap buy in on a club down on it's luck to add it to the portfolio and give Wael a leg up in football politics. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 17:25:54 GMT
But that's not the Al-Qadi's fault is it? Lets just throw all our toys out the pram and expect some Arab blokes just to wave a magic wand or rub a lamp and magically make the previous 140 odd years of our history disapear and miraculously make everything we've ever dreamed about come true in the space of 5 minutes? Is that honestly what you were expecting? Perspective indeed. I’m led to believe the creditors owed money haven’t been paid again. There’s trouble at t’mill Bristol Rovers is a house of cards and it will all come tumbling down...sooner than later. You don't need facts to see that actual actions indicate that there is no finance in place to do anything of real note with this club. |
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Dec 22, 2017 17:33:47 GMT
Based on this, it really does beg the question - Why? I believed (wrongly) their net assets were significantly higher. IF UWE 'employed' SL (or any expert) in an advisory role he would have seen straight through this and IMO would have advised severe caution (a relatively minor overseas bank with little or no UK credibility) - hence as I've thought all along they were not able to come up with the necessary long term financial guarantees (bonds). Swissgas' analysis (if right) suggests it is a plaything for little Wael, which (imo) is corroborated by the interest in Gillingham. A cheap buy in on a club down on it's luck to add it to the portfolio and give Wael a leg up in football politics. Good job as Hamer says then that we are not in a two club city and have to worry about losing the next generation of supporters to a local rival! We are in the hands of bluffers and jokers but hey no problem let's get some perspective. We are 'lil ol' Bristol Rovers and it can't be reasonably expected that we should have the training facilities of Fleetwood Town, the status of Bournemouth or even Burton Dam Albion, or a ground as good as Tranmere Rovers! No siree we need perspective! |
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 22, 2017 17:39:26 GMT
But that's not the Al-Qadi's fault is it? Lets just throw all our toys out the pram and expect some Arab blokes just to wave a magic wand or rub a lamp and magically make the previous 200 odd years of our history disapear and miraculously make everything we've ever dreamed about come true in the space of 5 minutes? Is that honestly what you were expecting? Perspective indeed. It’s the ALQs fault that they raised expectations when they bought the club. If they’d instead come in Dunford style and the rhetoric was simply about rescuing the club from oblivion and made it clear they didn’t have the money to build a new stadium they’d be getting little or no grief now. They didn't throw out superlatives like "Premier League in 5 years", "We're going to throw loads of money at it" or anything like that did they? The "Evolution not revolution" line pretty much made that clear. I agree that The UWE situation was very odd indeed, especially the timing, and the lack of updates too. BUT again as I've said multiple times, perspective is needed rather than most of the scaremongering, fabricated nonsense regarding the Al-Qadi's on here. |
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