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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 22, 2017 13:13:39 GMT
Isn't the UWE stadium deal collapse the dictionary definition of 'false dawn'? It's not over until the fat lady sings  She's not fat, she just wears large fake breasts. That's why they call her false Dawn. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 13:15:34 GMT
With absolute respect it would certainly explain why, for the most part, we are so happy to accept false dawn after false dawn. I have not witnessed any false dawns yet Well I don't know how else you can class the failure of a stadium build that was already on the table and talk of a modern training complex being downgraded to a clubhouse with a couple of pitches. Wael said evolution not revolution yet still couldn't help himself saying that we need a new stadium and that funding was not contingent on Sainsburys...21 months on the money isn't even there for the training ground let alone the stadium. I wish the Al Qadis were as good at running a football club as they are at not following through on what they say. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 13:18:02 GMT
I just ignore them, pretend they don't exist and never compare. But I do sometimes worry about the age profile of our supporters as so many of us seem to be the wrong side of 60 and the yougsters seem to gravitate to the other side. Interestingly a city supporting colleague of mine,obviously before the Man U game was saying the same about the lack of younger fans at Ashton stating that in his mind they prefer playing on their iPads or PlayStations than attending matches. It will certainly be interesting to see the balance of their crowds vs ours from this point on. They will undoubtedly have made a few look up from their playstations with that result. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 13:23:42 GMT
Interestingly a city supporting colleague of mine,obviously before the Man U game was saying the same about the lack of younger fans at Ashton stating that in his mind they prefer playing on their iPads or PlayStations than attending matches. It will certainly be interesting to see the balance of their crowds vs ours from this point on. They will undoubtedly have made a few look up from their playstations with that result. Nah the youngsters today pick their games they got so much choice nowadays what they can do. |
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Post by Henbury Gas on Dec 22, 2017 13:24:06 GMT
I have not witnessed any false dawns yet Well I don't know how else you can class the failure of a stadium build that was already on the table and talk of a modern training complex being downgraded to a clubhouse with a couple of pitches. Wael said evolution not revolution yet still couldn't help himself saying that we need a new stadium and that funding was not contingent on Sainsburys...21 months on the money isn't even there for the training ground let alone the stadium. I wish the Al Qadis were as good at running a football club as they are at not following through on what they say. As regards the UWE we NEVER had a contract with them so nothing ever started beyond a paper exercise As regards the Colony Maybe South Glos told DS to cut it back a bit to stop the tree huggers from moaning to much. When phase one is built Phase 2 & 3 will be applied for and granted |
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Post by Okebournegas on Dec 22, 2017 13:37:16 GMT
I have not witnessed any false dawns yet Well I don't know how else you can class the failure of a stadium build that was already on the table and talk of a modern training complex being downgraded to a clubhouse with a couple of pitches. Wael said evolution not revolution yet still couldn't help himself saying that we need a new stadium and that funding was not contingent on Sainsburys...21 months on the money isn't even there for the training ground let alone the stadium. I wish the Al Qadis were as good at running a football club as they are at not following through on what they say. Or money for players...... |
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Post by Jomo on Dec 22, 2017 13:40:25 GMT
Well I don't know how else you can class the failure of a stadium build that was already on the table and talk of a modern training complex being downgraded to a clubhouse with a couple of pitches. Wael said evolution not revolution yet still couldn't help himself saying that we need a new stadium and that funding was not contingent on Sainsburys...21 months on the money isn't even there for the training ground let alone the stadium. I wish the Al Qadis were as good at running a football club as they are at not following through on what they say. As regards the UWE we NEVER had a contract with them so nothing ever started beyond a paper exercise As regards the Colony Maybe South Glos told DS to cut it back a bit to stop the tree huggers from moaning to much. When phase one is built Phase 2 & 3 will be applied for and granted The latter part of what you say I would like to think is true, but for the fact that our chairman himself stated that it was being scaled down due to the cost being higher than they first thought. Hopefully he was talking rubbish, but I cannot believe that he would come out with a false statement such as that, that makes him and the owners look like total amateurs. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 22, 2017 13:49:15 GMT
Well I don't know how else you can class the failure of a stadium build that was already on the table and talk of a modern training complex being downgraded to a clubhouse with a couple of pitches. Wael said evolution not revolution yet still couldn't help himself saying that we need a new stadium and that funding was not contingent on Sainsburys...21 months on the money isn't even there for the training ground let alone the stadium. I wish the Al Qadis were as good at running a football club as they are at not following through on what they say. As regards the UWE we NEVER had a contract with them so nothing ever started beyond a paper exercise As regards the Colony Maybe South Glos told DS to cut it back a bit to stop the tree huggers from moaning to much. When phase one is built Phase 2 & 3 will be applied for and grantedIs that before or after we get promoted to the Championship in your world of make believe? |
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Post by Henbury Gas on Dec 22, 2017 13:55:03 GMT
As regards the UWE we NEVER had a contract with them so nothing ever started beyond a paper exercise As regards the Colony Maybe South Glos told DS to cut it back a bit to stop the tree huggers from moaning to much. When phase one is built Phase 2 & 3 will be applied for and grantedIs that before or after we get promoted to the Championship in your world of make believe? seek and ye shall find Matthew 7:7 |
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 22, 2017 14:13:30 GMT
Ashton Vale was panned 7 years ago. It took them 7 years to go from the Ashton Vale plan to the rebuild of Ashton Gate. It took time. The Al-Qadi's have been here 18 months compared to Lansdowns decade. The people who are expecting the Al-Qadi's to pull off in 18 months what its took Lansdown 10 years to do, are also living in some sort of make believe world. The AG redevelopment was announced in late 13 as soon as the AV project died. It was given planning sign off in March 14 enabling build to start at the end of that season. So it took around 6 months to go from no plans to planning sign off and get the diggers in. In fact they waited another 2 months to start to finish off the season. It 2 years to complete. The ALQs came in to a club with PP signed off on a brand new development which was given in 2014. According to Wael, the finances not being a problem. The whole club and project were on display for all the tentative new owners. After 18 months, we pull out. Another 6 months have past of complete silence, no plans and no future vision let alone any form of planning permission. All of the above gives you an idea of timescales. So if we are looking at a Mem redevelopment nothing is going to be built until at least 2020. That’s if we start in June. That is the realistic time frame and why we need to crack on now. In some ways how long the ALQs is kind of irrelevant. If you are looking at what the club actually needs right now, then a stadium is top of the list and number 1 priority. I’m sick of Wael banging on about how things take time. If you don’t have the finances then of course it will, you need to find investors or find a way to raise the cash. If so tell us. Conversely if the money is there, tell us what is taking the time as I’m sure there are some people who can help and advise in getting things done and sorted. The training ground is now 4 pitches and a clubhouse and offices and should take around 6 months to do. So all of this taking time is a complete nonsense as well. I don’t think anyone is unrealistic about build timescales but no one is stupid enough to believe it takes 6 months to get some plans drawn and ideas in place. You could do that inside a couple of weeks. It still took Lansdown 10 years and a whole lot of money to get Ashton Gate to how it looks now, and this is the first time they've even remotely looked like getting out of The Championship. People also forget that 3 and a half years ago they were worse than we are now, they were struggling at the bottom of League One im pretty sure they were in the bottom 4 for quite a while under O'Driscoll. Yes we desperately need a stadium, but because we are desperate I'd rather we did things carefully and not live to regret something if we hastily rush something and it's either a sh** build on the cheap or something that doesn't benefit Rovers in the long term. I.e The UWE deal. If Rovers haven't got a top class stadium and haven't had any significant improvement both on and off the pitch by February 2026, which would be 10 years since the Al-Qadi's took over(The same time frame as Lansdown has been at City) then I will be royally f**ked off and that would be time for panic. Thats what I mean by a bit of perspective. |
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Post by blueridge on Dec 22, 2017 14:18:18 GMT
Well I don't know how else you can class the failure of a stadium build that was already on the table and talk of a modern training complex being downgraded to a clubhouse with a couple of pitches. Wael said evolution not revolution yet still couldn't help himself saying that we need a new stadium and that funding was not contingent on Sainsburys...21 months on the money isn't even there for the training ground let alone the stadium. I wish the Al Qadis were as good at running a football club as they are at not following through on what they say. As regards the UWE we NEVER had a contract with them so nothing ever started beyond a paper exercise As regards the Colony Maybe South Glos told DS to cut it back a bit to stop the tree huggers from moaning to much. When phase one is built Phase 2 & 3 will be applied for and granted HG if you believe that last para of yours you'll believe anything. Did'nt you just 2/3 weeks ago suggest they might be selling off the remaining land at the The Colony to pay for it - I thought your 'mate' in SG planning was in the know and kept you up to date - perhaps I'm underestimating you and you are making a statement of fact. It's all about finance as well you know and IMO very short sighted of them to cut this particular project back. This facility was being built to effectively put a big building block in place (at a relatively small outlay) to help secure the future of our club in attracting future young talent and current players to the club - with all players and support staff all effectively under one roof. This demonstrates to me above everything else at the moment that the owners do not have the ambition/wherewithal to take the club forward. £6/7m as an investment to our owners would represent less than 0.5% of their declared net assets. Would I be prepared to invest 0.5% of my net assets for a stake in the club - answer a resounding yes - they can contact me at anytime they like. BTW I'm not a millionaire!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 14:18:24 GMT
Well I don't know how else you can class the failure of a stadium build that was already on the table and talk of a modern training complex being downgraded to a clubhouse with a couple of pitches. Wael said evolution not revolution yet still couldn't help himself saying that we need a new stadium and that funding was not contingent on Sainsburys...21 months on the money isn't even there for the training ground let alone the stadium. I wish the Al Qadis were as good at running a football club as they are at not following through on what they say. As regards the UWE we NEVER had a contract with them so nothing ever started beyond a paper exercise As regards the Colony Maybe South Glos told DS to cut it back a bit to stop the tree huggers from moaning to much. When phase one is built Phase 2 & 3 will be applied for and granted Oh I know that we never had a contract with them, it was a "gentleman's agreement" at best but for the Al Qadis to be so bullish about the stadium they would surely have done due diligence by speaking to UWE and known what they were up against prior to buying to the club? Either way you slice it there appears to me culpability of some description on the Al Qadi's side in terms of what theu thought they could achieve vs what they actually had the means to achieve. Re the training ground, that is an interesting possibility certainly, but taking occam's razor into account (in tandem with the stadium issues) it seems far more likely that it is funding that is the core issue. Wouldnt DS also have been able to be fair more open over the training ground if it was issues over planning? The fact that they are not pursuing 'quick wins' to keep the fans on side suggests that their problems are of a nature that they don't want anyone to know about- ie problems caused by them. |
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 22, 2017 14:18:25 GMT
Have not really looked into there's. But isn't it really only one new main stand? We need to look into doing every stand, possible moving the pitch, building other facilities to bring in revenue etc. Don't think the mem is as easy. To get the best out of it, I would have thought it will take a lot longer to plan. Someone said they were having problems as well, as everything has to be under a certain height. Maybe they are struggling and looking at other sights as well. We don't want to just rush into something that will cost loads and bring in no revenue. C**y don't care if they can't fit in a hotel etc as they have money to burn. 3 Stands and the pitch was moved about 5m as well. Do we need a hotel on site? I don't think we do. There is a lot of other ways to develop commercial ventures and opportunities. We assume Lansdown doesnt care about the money he spends at City. But as a multi millionaire businessman, I very much doubt that. He will see it as a loss leader but how he has built his Bristol Sport Franchise now I am sure will always generate income going forward. It was 2 stands, they knocked down the Old East End and knocked down the Williams to build the new massive stand. The Dolman and Atyeo Stands are the same as they always were, bar a lick of paint. They've had plenty of room to do that, The Mem has houses on 3 corners of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 14:21:11 GMT
It only took Lansdown that long because of the Ashton Vale project, once he decided to revamp Ashton gate it didn't take long to get it done.
They were in the playoff final under Daddy Johnson.
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 22, 2017 14:26:26 GMT
The AG redevelopment was announced in late 13 as soon as the AV project died. It was given planning sign off in March 14 enabling build to start at the end of that season. So it took around 6 months to go from no plans to planning sign off and get the diggers in. In fact they waited another 2 months to start to finish off the season. It 2 years to complete. The ALQs came in to a club with PP signed off on a brand new development which was given in 2014. According to Wael, the finances not being a problem. The whole club and project were on display for all the tentative new owners. After 18 months, we pull out. Another 6 months have past of complete silence, no plans and no future vision let alone any form of planning permission. All of the above gives you an idea of timescales. So if we are looking at a Mem redevelopment nothing is going to be built until at least 2020. That’s if we start in June. That is the realistic time frame and why we need to crack on now. In some ways how long the ALQs is kind of irrelevant. If you are looking at what the club actually needs right now, then a stadium is top of the list and number 1 priority. I’m sick of Wael banging on about how things take time. If you don’t have the finances then of course it will, you need to find investors or find a way to raise the cash. If so tell us. Conversely if the money is there, tell us what is taking the time as I’m sure there are some people who can help and advise in getting things done and sorted. The training ground is now 4 pitches and a clubhouse and offices and should take around 6 months to do. So all of this taking time is a complete nonsense as well. I don’t think anyone is unrealistic about build timescales but no one is stupid enough to believe it takes 6 months to get some plans drawn and ideas in place. You could do that inside a couple of weeks. Good post. Cutting through all the crap. Things take time for the ALQs for the simple and obvious reason. THEY DONT HAVE THE MONEY! Zero Dinero! No it takes time for everyone. For instance it's took Spurs 7 years to go from PP for The New White Hart Lane to its current stage. The Emirates took the same. Even Chelsea with one of the richest owners in Abramovich at the helm has taken them over 12 years to even remotely get close to a rebuilt Stamford Bridge. They are huge football clubs from the capital. We are Bristol Rovers. Again a bit of perspective. |
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Post by Marshy on Dec 22, 2017 14:29:39 GMT
3 Stands and the pitch was moved about 5m as well. Do we need a hotel on site? I don't think we do. There is a lot of other ways to develop commercial ventures and opportunities. We assume Lansdown doesnt care about the money he spends at City. But as a multi millionaire businessman, I very much doubt that. He will see it as a loss leader but how he has built his Bristol Sport Franchise now I am sure will always generate income going forward. It was 2 stands, they knocked down the Old East End and knocked down the Williams to build the new massive stand. The Dolman and Atyeo Stands are the same as they always were, bar a lick of paint. They've had plenty of room to do that, The Mem has houses on 3 corners of it. The Mem so called rebuild just won’t happen as it’s not viable, I think we all know that. Besides you cant polish a turd. |
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 22, 2017 14:30:46 GMT
It only took Lansdown that long because of the Ashton Vale project, once he decided to revamp Ashton gate it didn't take long to get it done. They were in the playoff final under Daddy Johnson. The Ashton Vale project was a dead duck by 2010. The revamped Ashton Gate was finished last season . The Play Off final was 10 seasons ago. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 14:38:36 GMT
It only took Lansdown that long because of the Ashton Vale project, once he decided to revamp Ashton gate it didn't take long to get it done. They were in the playoff final under Daddy Johnson. The Ashton Vale project was a dead duck by 2010. The revamped Ashton Gate was finished last season . The Play Off final was 10 seasons ago. It ain't finished yet |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 14:42:10 GMT
It only took Lansdown that long because of the Ashton Vale project, once he decided to revamp Ashton gate it didn't take long to get it done. They were in the playoff final under Daddy Johnson. The Ashton Vale project was a dead duck by 2010. The revamped Ashton Gate was finished last season . The Play Off final was 10 seasons ago. Wrong. The Ashton vale project eas conceived in 2010. It went to the High Court in Jan 2012 and City pulled the plug late 2013 and announced they would redevelop Ashton Gate. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 14:43:42 GMT
Well I don't know how else you can class the failure of a stadium build that was already on the table and talk of a modern training complex being downgraded to a clubhouse with a couple of pitches. Wael said evolution not revolution yet still couldn't help himself saying that we need a new stadium and that funding was not contingent on Sainsburys...21 months on the money isn't even there for the training ground let alone the stadium. I wish the Al Qadis were as good at running a football club as they are at not following through on what they say. Or money for players...... Not sure money for players falls in the 'false dawn' category since they said from day one they weren't going throwing money around on transfer fees. The potential downgrade in plans for the training ground should be more of an issue for the players than us. I'm sure it will still be a tremendous facility and they paid £1m for the plot didn't they? It will be the first time since the mid 80's that we've owned our own training ground after spending years in a chocolate factory, the grounds of a hotel and renting from an insurance company |
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